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Thread: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie T. Mouse View Post
    No none, and when will BUSH and CHENEY be waterboaded for War Crimes ????
    This is what I would like to know, because he only showed his Cowboy swagger and bad examples to the whole World and most Nations have lost respect fand trust for the U.S.A. and what it stand for because of his barbaric actions.
    You're exactly right, he should have followed FDR's tact and instead of waterboarding the accused had them tried by secret military tribunal and executed before the general public even knew they existed. Or maybe they could follow your countries pristine example and have them executed by guillotine without trial for "anti-revolutionary activities," Robespierre style, or maybe put them into concentration camps the way De Gaul did with the Algerians or the various uses of real life torture implemented by the Fascist policies of De Gaul against the Algerians. And FYI France has cracked down on civil liberties in response to the threat of Islamist terrorism far harder than the U.S., perhaps you've heard of the RG?

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I linked it. But whether he beat him or not, the procedure, which is what we're disputing, was the same.
    No it wasn't the same because our waterboarding was not coupled with physical beating.

    They didn't do what you claimed, filling his stomach with water, distending it, and beating the distended stomach. The waterboarding procedure was the same as we use today. They did not go further with the procedure of waterboarding. Both types have the same result, drowning.
    They beat him, and I provided the article describing how they did fill peoples stomachs with water until their stomachs distended and then beat and jumped on the distended stomachs.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Boo,

    Was wondering if we could continue our discussion.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058787160

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Boo,

    Actually, yes...

    See how unnecessary that was? Please refrain from making empty assertions, as they add nothing to the discussion.



    A spurious analogy that falsely assumes torture can only obtain intelligence by pure chance. You cannot definitively claim this is or would be the case - you can only assume so.



    Suppose you're the President and the CIA captures a high level AQ commander. They use all available interrogation methods except "torture" and nothing is working. The chief interrogator comes to you, the President, and says, "Sir, we've tried everything but nothing is working. We know this guy has actionable intelligence that could severely compromise AQ's ability to attack American interests at home and abroad but we've run out of options. Sir, we think we can get him to talk but we need to apply some additional pressure, perhaps waterboarding or prolonged food and sleep deprivation, maybe both. We need your permission to proceed."

    What is your response? I'm genuinely curious to know what you would do.
    First, you can't really know. More you think this person has actionable intel, and if you torture, you'll get something, likely wrong, and waste time and probably hurt us more than anything else would. See al Libi as an example. Getting wrong intel is not a viable option, and just becasue we're frustrated is not reason to break the law or do something that is more likely to provide misinformation.

    So, I am quite proper to no. A stopped clock is correct twice a day, but no reasonable person would argue it works. The point stands.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No it wasn't the same because our waterboarding was not coupled with physical beating.



    They beat him, and I provided the article describing how they did fill peoples stomachs with water until their stomachs distended and then beat and jumped on the distended stomachs.
    Yes, it was the exact same water boarding. Beating him is another offense. People are capable of doing more than one offense. But doing so doesn't change the fact that the procedure is the same.

    Just so you know, we beat some folks as well. I specifically recall a fellow in Afghanistan who wasn't guilty of anything who died while being beaten. But that's beside the point. The waterboarding technique was the same.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    .


    Would like to take this opportunity to tell the forum a little about myself. If somebody is torturing me, I am going to be singing like a ****ing canary.

    Ok. Carry on....


    .

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    .


    Would like to take this opportunity to tell the forum a little about myself. If somebody is torturing me, I am going to be singing like a ****ing canary.

    Ok. Carry on....


    .
    I know, like most, even if you have nothing to sing about. Al Libi did that for us as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know, like most, even if you have nothing to sing about. Al Libi did that for us as well.
    In case you mis-understood my message, am not talking about "making things up". I would be inclined to be tell the truth. And the reality is, if my captors were even suggesting i was going to be tortured I would tend to be forthcoming with information.

    Don't interpret this as being a supporter of torture. I'm not. But this constant drumbeat that "torture just doesn't work" strikes me as ludicrous. Am sure there are those bad guys that will/can stand firm for the cause and give nothing but bogus info. But am guessing that many/most are a little less pure warriors.

    Which again brings us back to what definition of "torture" we are talking about. There is a pretty wide spectrum in the current debates. Loud music or stress positions is a far cry from waterboarding. (and my understanding is that waterboarding was used in only a tiny fraction of the cases....)



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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You made two claims that I believe are false:

    1) The abuses at Abu Ghraib were part of authorized US policy, as opposed to unauthorized actions, and
    2) That that policy was set in place by Bush or Cheney.

    I'm still waiting for a shred of evidence to back up either claim.

    Note that I'm not referring to things like stress positions, sleep deprivation, etc. I'm referring to the things that made Abu Ghraib notorious - the physical beatings, the rape, etc.

    Because you didn't say anything of substance. You argued that Gitmo was bad, and as proof you cited the fact that "republicans" had resigned. That's not really something worth responding to.
    Your disingenuous reply is noted. Your wordsmithing is as transparent as a pane of glass. Your attempt to derail honest discussions of facts, i.e. Senate Armed Services Committee findings, show you don't deserve my honest continuation in this, or any, debate with you. You wouldn't admit that your heroes Bush, Cheeney, Rummy, Rice, etc. lied to this country to take us into their illegal war of choice, authorized illegal torture and many more treasonist activities if they wrote it out in their own blood.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Former President George W. Bush: We waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed,

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Your disingenuous reply is noted. Your wordsmithing is as transparent as a pane of glass. Your attempt to derail honest discussions of facts, i.e. Senate Armed Services Committee findings, show you don't deserve my honest continuation in this, or any, debate with you. You wouldn't admit that your heroes Bush, Cheeney, Rummy, Rice, etc. lied to this country to take us into their illegal war of choice, authorized illegal torture and many more treasonist activities if they wrote it out in their own blood.
    Abu Ghraib was a disaster and a scar on our nation. Don't think there are a lot of arguments on that one. But have never heard of an viable reports that suggest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld knew anything about what was going on there. Let alone that they condoned those atrocities.

    You have something to the contrary that you can share.....???


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