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Thread: Supreme Court: Suspects must invoke right to remain silent in interrogations

  1. #61
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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The Miranda rights never say you must specifically declare you're using your rights. One would think that two hours of silence has made that clear enough.
    If there is a "specific" YOU MUST SAY THIS miranda warning, then I would agree with you.
    But there isnt.

    When I mirandize folks, I inform them that they can stop answering questions or ask for a lawyer at any time. That isn't a requirement of the Supreme Court's ruling in Miranda.
    I also ask them at the end of the miranda warning, "Do you want to answer questions at this time without an attorney present?"

    The only things that are required by Miranda are that you inform them that they don't have to answer questions as anything they say may be used against them in court, and they have the right to have legal counsel present during questioning.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Before this ruling, that was never clearly the case. If I'm using my freedom of speech, do I have to say "This is my freedom of speech" before saying it? That's never been the case for any other right.
    Actually, it says you don't have to answer questions.

    It has never stated that I can't ask them up until the point that you request counsel present.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #63
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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If there is a "specific" YOU MUST SAY THIS miranda warning, then I would agree with you.
    But there isnt.

    When I mirandize folks, I inform them that they can stop answering questions or ask for a lawyer at any time. That isn't a requirement of the Supreme Court's ruling in Miranda.
    I also ask them at the end of the miranda warning, "Do you want to answer questions at this time without an attorney present?"

    The only things that are required by Miranda are that you inform them that they don't have to answer questions as anything they say may be used against them in court, and they have the right to have legal counsel present during questioning.
    Do you think that the fact that this suspect went hours without speaking was a clear indicator he was invoking his right to be silent?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Actually, it says you don't have to answer questions.

    It has never stated that I can't ask them up until the point that you request counsel present.
    I may be wrong, but it seems like what the cops did hear borders on coercion.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Now I will not insult you by claiming that you've never actually read the constitution, but somehow in your reading you seem to have missed the fifth amendment which claims "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

    We usually say right to remain silent, since "right to not be compelled to be a witness against yourself" doesn't roll off the tongue as well
    Exactly. Now if you read the majority opinion in this matter, and the reasons why the majority decided the way they did, you would have answered your own point.

    Remaining "silent" in the way that Sotomayor, and apparently You are viewing it, and "being compelled to be a witness against yourself" are two different things.

    Answering a question as to whether or not you wish to answer questions as part of a criminal investigation is NOT being compelled to be a witness against yourself.
    As your answer to this question is NOT being used as evidence against you, and thus it is not in violation of the 5th amendment.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    From what I could tell, the cops just weren't ceasing the questioning. 2 hours, 10 hours, how long was it going to go? The cops just would not stop questioning him, and wasn't taking his silence as an acceptable answer. I think it bordered on coercion.
    I don't believe that the cops MUST stop asking questions just because someone has invoked his right to remain silent. I believe, as Caine has pointed out, the cops must stop asking questions once the suspect asks for a lawyer.

    Okay, I just looked up some things. The cops must stop asking questions when a person says they want to remain silent. According to an article about this case, the guy did not explicitly state he wanted to remain silent. I can see how his not saying anything would cause one to think he was invoking his right to remain silent, but he never stated such explicitly.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, said Thompkins could have ended the questioning by telling the police he wanted to invoke his right to remain silent.



    http://detnews.com/article/20100601/...vict-in-prison
    Last edited by aps; 06-04-10 at 07:56 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Exactly. Now if you read the majority opinion in this matter, and the reasons why the majority decided the way they did, you would have answered your own point.

    Remaining "silent" in the way that Sotomayor, and apparently You are viewing it, and "being compelled to be a witness against yourself" are two different things.

    Answering a question as to whether or not you wish to answer questions as part of a criminal investigation is NOT being compelled to be a witness against yourself.
    As your answer to this question is NOT being used as evidence against you, and thus it is not in violation of the 5th amendment.
    Except he was never asked whether or not he was invoking his right to remain silent. You're bringing up something that never happened.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Do you think that the fact that this suspect went hours without speaking was a clear indicator he was invoking his right to be silent?
    At no time, until now, was there a requirement for questions to stop being asked on the federal level unless counsel was requested. Some states have clarified this FOR THEIR STATE however.

    Police are not mind readers. It could have been a clear indicator that the defendant didn't wish to answer those specific questions that he remained silent for.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #69
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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    At no time, until now, was there a requirement for questions to stop being asked on the federal level unless counsel was requested. Some states have clarified this FOR THEIR STATE however.

    Police are not mind readers. It could have been a clear indicator that the defendant didn't wish to answer those specific questions that he remained silent for.
    It seems to me that he was not told he was specifically required to declare this right. Suspects aren't mind readers either.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Except he was never asked whether or not he was invoking his right to remain silent. You're bringing up something that never happened.
    And there was not a requirement to do so, until now.
    There was also never a requirement to stop asking questions just because someone is starring at you like you have a dick growing out of your forehead.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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