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Thread: Supreme Court: Suspects must invoke right to remain silent in interrogations

  1. #151
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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Mainly whether you think the various laws are too restrictive or not.
    Nah, I think they are fine.

    Concerning consent to search, you can search the area specified. If I ask, "Can I search your car?" And you say, "Yes." Then I get to search the car. Thats every part of the car, and not limited to anything.
    If I say, "Can I search your trunk?" And you say, "Yes." Then I can search the trunk, and thats it.

    Concerning searches based upon probable cause, it depends on what it is that gave the probable cause, As it stands now, if there is an odor of marijuana, I can search pretty much the entire vehicle, whereever the item could be reasonably held. You can't tell an officer "NO" to a probable cause search.

    Concerning searches incident to arrest, it has been recently upheld that any search incident to arrest of a vehicle has to be in compliance with searching for specific evidence in refernce to the crime that you have probable cause to arrest them on. So say during a DWI arrest, I can search the vehicle for open containers of alcohol, and I typically search for receipts for purchases from local bars with a time/date that match up reasonably to the time I am arresting them at. Although I typically find these in their pockets when I search them, which is allowed incidnet to ANY arrest regardless of looking for evidence or not, because it is a safety concern for us to transport an individual who we don't know if they are armed or not, not to mention it is a felony to bring controlled substances into a jail.

    Personally, I don't see any search laws to be too restrictive. Most laws concerning the search of vehicles are not constrictive, as most of the time they fall under the "plain touch" doctrine (this includes smells, and even the feel of an item when doing a "frisk" which is a totally different type of search under Terry v. Ohio), and the fact that you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy if you have items laying out in a vehicle that are not stored away in a trunk or enclosed compartment.

    There are a vast majority more restrictions on searches of residences. None of which I do not agree with. You have a high level expectation of privacy in your home, and even probable cause is not always enough to justify searching a home, as you have to be able to articulate a reason why the time frame for obtaining a warrant would cause a loss of the evidence, when for most situations you can post an officer on either side of the home and lock down the residence until the warrant is obtained.

    As far as searches for blood, warrants are not too time demanding for most items, DNA is always gonna be there. However, I do not have a problem with NC's law regarding warrantless searches for blood in DWI cases. Alcohol is elminated from the body in a timely manner, in order to preserve the evidence it is important that we obtain the blood quickly, not 4-6 hours later. As in that amount of time one would lose a BAC amount of .06 - .09, which is just about losing enough BAC to not be impaired anymore. As long as an Officer can show they had probable cause to believe the individual was impaired by an impairing substance, then I don't see why the search cannot be made without a warrant. However, with that said. There are restrictions. A. The individual needs to refuse voluntary chemical analysis. B. If Im right next door to the magistrate's office, there is no reason why I can't obtain a search warrant for said blood which may take about 10-30 minutes.

    Does that answer your question?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    From my perspective, that's just simply a "what's good for the goose" situation. If you forget to check a box on any form or sign in the right place or perform some perfunctory responsibility in the course of doing your duty to the government, they are gonna fine, imprison, punish the hell out of you for it. If the government can fine you or dismiss a petition from you for the same minor mistakes, then it's only just and fair that the government be held to the same standard when trying to levy charges against you.
    But, do you get a chance to correct said minor mistakes with documented proof?
    If so, then your compairson is not valid.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #153
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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Thank you very much caine, i'll try to be more exact in my questions next time
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To me, getting someone off "On a technicality" is a lawyer finding a situation where a cop made a minor and relatively inconsequential mistake or procedure not judgement, and manipulating that. A situation where a check box is forgotten to be marked once in a dozen times, however its redunandcy check (the actual maintence laog) is filled out. An instance where an officer may've got distracted while signing a number of papers that may be evidence or some such thing and in the middle of starting one he gets distracted by someone and ends up missing the signature on that...yet you can see every item prior to it and after it entered into the log is signed by him. Etc.
    And those kinds of decisions are rare indeed, and maybe that's why you hear about them from time to time instead of every day.

    I have clients who all believe they can win on those things, though. "Look, he wrote that my car is a 2005 and it's really a 2006! Can I get this thrown out?" "Um, NO."

    The problem is that some people hear about the other cases and start considering anything that frees a guilty person as a "loophole" when in fact, there may be very good Constitutional reasons why they charges were dismissed.

    I am literally finishing a brief today about a case where a young and inexperienced cop was investigating a hit and run accident. He saw tire tracks in the snow leading to my client's driveway with a sign saying "No trespassing, private property." Instead of getting a warrant however he drove up the driveway (which goes about 1/10 of a mile -- you can't see the house from the road because of all the trees) and started searching the damaged car he found. My client came out and was arrested.

    Now, if I win, does that mean he gets off on a loophole? Is the 4th amendment a loophole or a requirement?

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    From my perspective, that's just simply a "what's good for the goose" situation. If you forget to check a box on any form or sign in the right place or perform some perfunctory responsibility in the course of doing your duty to the government, they are gonna fine, imprison, punish the hell out of you for it. If the government can fine you or dismiss a petition from you for the same minor mistakes, then it's only just and fair that the government be held to the same standard when trying to levy charges against you.
    I think it depends on the state law as well.

    In this particular case, if the law says that the device has to be checked periodically or it's inadmissible, and there is no evidence that it was indeed checked (because no one checked the right box), then yeah, maybe it should have been thrown out, because you can't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt if you don't know if the device was accurate.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    I think it depends on the state law as well.

    In this particular case, if the law says that the device has to be checked periodically or it's inadmissible, and there is no evidence that it was indeed checked (because no one checked the right box), then yeah, maybe it should have been thrown out, because you can't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt if you don't know if the device was accurate.
    However, if the maintenance records are public information, posted on a publicly accessible website, where the maintenance sheet is signed by the maintainor of said instrument, then I don't understand what the problem is there.

    But, like I said, the judge was a sheep in the courtroom.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    But, do you get a chance to correct said minor mistakes with documented proof?
    If so, then your compairson is not valid.
    You might get to correct the mistake but you are still going to be penalized for it in some tangible way, even if it is having to appear in court to hear whether or not the correction is accepted.

    The comparison is more than valid because the balance of power between the two parties is so extremely off. The state has the power to arrest and end all liberties for the citizen therefore the state should be held to a higher standard...their burden of proof needs to not only be greater than that of the suspect but extreme...beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    However, if the maintenance records are public information, posted on a publicly accessible website, where the maintenance sheet is signed by the maintainor of said instrument, then I don't understand what the problem is there.

    But, like I said, the judge was a sheep in the courtroom.
    If the one box wasn't checked when it was supposed to be, who's to say the other record was completed when it wasn't supposed to be? There's that shadow of a doubt creeping in...

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If the one box wasn't checked when it was supposed to be, who's to say the other record was completed when it wasn't supposed to be? There's that shadow of a doubt creeping in...
    If you only knew what the system was like, lol.

    The same information obtained by the individual completing said form is obtained from the same source as the public website.
    The document posted at the instrument is scanned in and published on the website.


    The operator is NOT the individual who conducts the regular preventive maintenance on the instrument.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Supreme Court Narrows Miranda Rights, Keeps Michigan Convict in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If you only knew what the system was like, lol.

    The same information obtained by the individual completing said form is obtained from the same source as the public website.
    The document posted at the instrument is scanned in and published on the website.


    The operator is NOT the individual who conducts the regular preventive maintenance on the instrument.
    Exactly. So when one box is checked while the other isn't, it means that the confirmation of completion has failed somewhere. Whether that be because of oversight on the part of the cop filling out the form by having not checked the box or because of some maintenance tech having fibbed a bit on his work order...who knows? What we do know is that a mechanism was set in place for important maintenance to be performed and then have its performance confirmed and that mechanism failed so the entire process now falls under suspicion.

    Shadow of a doubt creeping right on in...

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