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Thread: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

  1. #61
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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Slightly off topic but my friend purchased his first firearm today. He was positively giddy with excitement!

    Here's what he got...



    Positively exquisite - hopefully he never has to use it against anyone. Water melons and beer cans will suffice.
    Slightly, off topic... pretty much ****all to do with topic is better wording. But hey, to each their own.

    Anyway, I'm glad this mother****er extuingished himself from the Earth, cause the British justice system unfortunately wouldn't have.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Slightly, off topic... pretty much ****all to do with topic is better wording. But hey, to each their own.

    Anyway, I'm glad this mother****er extuingished himself from the Earth, cause the British justice system unfortunately wouldn't have.
    Jet,

    I believe there was an ongoing discussion concerning firearms and the like. Not sure why you felt the need to be so abrasive but, hey, to each their own.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Jet,

    I believe there was an ongoing discussion concerning firearms and the like. Not sure why you felt the need to be so abrasive but, hey, to each their own.
    Um, there are different forums to talk about how your friend just got a wonderful firearm. It is beautiful I won't doubt that. Just not really constructive to this conversation.


    As with people trying to say that if the UK had plenty of guns this disaster wouldn't have been as bad as it had been.... that is absolute bollocks and you know it.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Um, there are different forums to talk about how your friend just got a wonderful firearm. It is beautiful I won't doubt that. Just not really constructive to this conversation.
    Jet,

    And there are different forums to discuss the relative efficacy of gun control within the context of culture, yet that discussion somehow managed to surface in this thread without eliciting an abrasive retort from you.

    If you're insisting that I discuss or post things only directly relevant to the thread topic then there isn't much to say about this one other than "it's a tragedy" or "glad it's over". A reasonable amount of topically tangential discussion is to be expected, but I digress...

    I don't want to bicker anymore but I don't think there was anything wrong with my post.

    As with people trying to say that if the UK had plenty of guns this disaster wouldn't have been as bad as it had been.... that is absolute bollocks and you know it.
    I don't claim to know one way or the other, but it's not totally unreasonable to suggest that an armed citizenry would have been in a better position to intervene.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    -- What this would mean is that this right was given up or the common law definition of such was modified such that we arrived at a position where society ceased to be exercised by the limitations on gun ownership. I was pretty sure that the ownership was once wider and less restricted, but not that it was ever enshrined in common law. --
    Goshin's sources are essentially correct, there has been for a long while a right (this time written as in our original "Bill of Rights") but the 1953 Prevention of Crime Act is generally cited as making the carrying of any object for the purpose of self-defence a criminal offence.

    This means things like pepper spray which a woman could carry in her handbag to ward off a rapist is illegal and she could be prosecuted - even if she somehow exercised her right to self defence. What we have is one right to self defence but on the other hand severe restrictions on how we might protect ourselves - i.e. we aren't allowed to carry anything that could be used for self defence...

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Do you believe in everyone having a gun becuase that was what this was about. We all need to be armed or there will be the same as yesterday again? Do you want the police armed every day. That is what this was about. If so, enjoy but it remains that their is an overwhelming consesnus in the UK against us all having guns and against the police being armed so you are in the minority. Of course you are allowed your opiniion. I never said you were not. You are simply in the minority and I do not share your view.
    I recognise I'm in a minority - however as I pointed out above the law puts us in a quandary - you are allowed to protect yourself in an attack but you aren't allowed the means to do so. I strongly believe in an educated populace - this might include what the Swiss do and require everyone to have yearly re-training with their weapons. Equally and without meaning to insult the US posters, Canada is a very good example where there is almost as high gun ownership as in the US but has far less incidents. I'm not entirely sure why - I haven't looked at it in great depth.

    The UK had pretty high gun ownership until the 1953 act that began to erode gun ownership - I can find no "Dunblane" or "Hungerford" or now "Whitehaven" type incidents in the UK before 1953 - I don't know if the people who went out and shot so many would have done if there had been greater gun ownership among the populace. I don't know if the evil men who perpetrated the horrors would have been put off knowing that UK citizens they encountered could protect themselves.

    I DO know that these three incidents happened after the 1953 act. I'm not theorising - just commenting.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    This was of course a tragedy but what I do not understand is the predictable reaction for a review and tightening of UK guns laws.
    Such as after Dunblane and the rushed through & badly written legislation which banned handguns, the Hungerford massacre in 1987 banning semi-automatics and once again the legislators are fending off pressure from campaigners over changing the law.

    Gun control in UK is one of the tightest in the world, passing through more legislation does not mean incidents like this will not happen, the problem does not lie within the weapon but the wielder and this was a extremely disturbed individual and I doubt the legality of the weapon would have mattered to someone so determined to cause deaths.
    Last edited by Laila; 06-04-10 at 01:22 PM.


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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What lessons? That guns kill people?

    The UK has very few cases of this kind, and in the US where children can basically get guns, there are such shootings almost on a weekly basis.
    white Americans have lower rates of violent crimes than whites in Europe

    we have increased our number of legal guns and our crime rates have decreased while England-which never had much violent crime-banned handguns over one incident and saw crime go up



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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Slightly off topic but my friend purchased his first firearm today. He was positively giddy with excitement!

    Here's what he got...



    Positively exquisite - hopefully he never has to use it against anyone. Water melons and beer cans will suffice.
    Benelli NOVA I believe-while Benelli's mostly famous for their recoil operated shotguns (have several) this pumpgun is a well made weapon



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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    white Americans have lower rates of violent crimes than whites in Europe

    we have increased our number of legal guns and our crime rates have decreased while England-which never had much violent crime-banned handguns over one incident and saw crime go up
    I dunno where you get your information sport.

    Here's some homicide rates for you by continent.

    North America - 6.5
    Europe - 5.4

    By Country and year. 2001 - most recent


    United States - 5.6 / 5.7 / 5.7 / 5.7 / 5.5 / 5.6 / 5.7 / 5.6 / 5.4 / 5.4

    England and wales - 1.61 / 1.52 / 1.62 / 1.62 / 1.37 / 1.37

    And alot of violent crime you're reffering to comes from drunken louts on a saturday night. Who do tend to be pricks.

    As an Englishmen, I'd rather die then see everyone have guns. I like to system, and I like the fact when I lived there I never had to see one except if you saw an armed cop unit.

    Anyone trying to use this incident as a case for gun legalization is just sick in my opinion.
    Last edited by Jetboogieman; 06-04-10 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What lessons? That guns kill people?

    The UK has very few cases of this kind, and in the US where children can basically get guns, there are such shootings almost on a weekly basis.
    Obviously, gun control doesn't do much to stop this sorta thing.

    On another note, does anyone remember when the Brits wanted to outlaw butcher knives a few years ago?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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