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Thread: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    The death toll is now 12 (13 including the shooter) with 30 different crime scenes. The witness reports make very upsetting listening. I have nothing to comment on Mr Ockham's ill-considered and inappropriate post. Perhaps you'd allow the dead to be buried before making political capital.
    Hey, if the democrats led by Clinton can use the instance of a 7 year old getting a hold of his crack dealing uncles handgun and shooting his sister on time in Michigan as justification for promoting a magazine capacity ban, then gun nuts on the left ought to be able to use 30 different shooting sites with unarmed victims as a rallying cry for private ownership of firearms. Fair is fair...

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Well that maybe so on some occasions, though personally I would prefer our police to deal with crime. They of course can get guns in special circumstances. We also do not have a death penalty so citizens killing their burglars and so on just would not sit so well here.

    However your homicides far exceed ours. (the figures are for 2004)

    England had 1.6 per 100,000 pop
    Scotland had 2.6 per 100,000 pop
    USA had 5.9 per 100,000 pop

    Global homicide: murder rates around the world | News | guardian.co.uk



    We may well. I think our last was about 14 years ago. Guns would not help us with this if the United States is anything to go by.



    US mass shootings since March 10,2009 less than 1 month

    and although our last to this mass killing was inside a school we have never had school children going in and gunning down their classmates.

    It is sad what happened today for the people who died and their families. Let's not turn this into a pro gun rally thread.
    Why not? Isnt it the position of Rahm and Obama that we should never let a good crisis go to waste?

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Well that maybe so on some occasions, though personally I would prefer our police to deal with crime. They of course can get guns in special circumstances. We also do not have a death penalty so citizens killing their burglars and so on just would not sit so well here.

    However your homicides far exceed ours. (the figures are for 2004)
    Yes there's all sorts of homicides though our country's don't quite count them the same way. Either way, I'd rather die defending myself against a person wanting to do me or my family harm than to die senselessly like these people did. And regarding burglars - Brits have a funny thing about that - they seem to encourage burglary somehow. Seem to recall some man a few years back being jailed beause he was robbed so many times that he finally took matters into his own hands and not only was jailed, but the burglar sued him and I think won. I'll look for the news story.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    We may well. I think our last was about 14 years ago. Guns would not help us with this if the United States is anything to go by.
    Not quite that long ago - and depending on where in the United State. If it was any large City - the police all carry guns. There are only 2 states, Wisconsin and Illinois that deny it's citizens the ability for Concealed Carry of firearms and some of those states like my own are very restrictive. Let me remind you that 37 people were hit, 12 died the rest injured. If this happened in the U.S., there would have been a better chance the guy wouldn't have killed or injured as many because citizens have access to weapons for defense. In Britain, there's zero chance. I'll take some over none any day.

    BBC News - Man held for murder over triple shooting in Forest Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    It is sad what happened today for the people who died and their families. Let's not turn this into a pro gun rally thread.
    I defend your right to be disarmed and vulnerable. To each their own. But that's not me and by and large it's not the majority of American's.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yes there's all sorts of homicides though our country's don't quite count them the same way. Either way, I'd rather die defending myself against a person wanting to do me or my family harm than to die senselessly like these people did. And regarding burglars - Brits have a funny thing about that - they seem to encourage burglary somehow. Seem to recall some man a few years back being jailed beause he was robbed so many times that he finally took matters into his own hands and not only was jailed, but the burglar sued him and I think won. I'll look for the news story.


    Not quite that long ago - and depending on where in the United State. If it was any large City - the police all carry guns. There are only 2 states, Wisconsin and Illinois that deny it's citizens the ability for Concealed Carry of firearms and some of those states like my own are very restrictive. Let me remind you that 37 people were hit, 12 died the rest injured. If this happened in the U.S., there would have been a better chance the guy wouldn't have killed or injured as many because citizens have access to weapons for defense. In Britain, there's zero chance. I'll take some over none any day.

    BBC News - Man held for murder over triple shooting in Forest Gate



    I defend your right to be disarmed and vulnerable
    . To each their own. But that's not me and by and large it's not the majority of American's.
    Not only do I defend it but I encourage them loudly and proudly proclaim that their home is a gun free and disarmed environment.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Sorta like a big neon sign which states "ROB ME, PLEASE".
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Yeah, if only those Columbine kids had been packing....

    But I'm sure the people of West Cumbria thank you for your show of sympathy.

    This is a terrible tragedy and to use it to make cheap political points is a bit sick. Fortunately no such tasteless remarks have been expressed by anyone on any of the radio or TV reports I've been following, so the grief of the families of the victims will not be exacerbated by anti gun control nuts.




    I for one am far more offended that the UK put these citizens at risk, depriving them of the basic right to self defense. I find it far more offensive that a nation disarms itself, and shows its belly to the wolf.


    It's an offensive act, this shooting, but a far more offensive act that thier government, made it easier for this savage to prey on the sheep.


    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Although I believe people should have the right to own guns, I'm far from convinced that it would make much of a difference in situations such as this. These were people who were just going about their daily lives when this crackpot started shooting at them. If they owned guns, it's doubtful they would have been carrying them or had time to respond.

    It's just a horrible incident.

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Although I believe people should have the right to own guns, I'm far from convinced that it would make much of a difference in situations such as this. These were people who were just going about their daily lives when this crackpot started shooting at them. If they owned guns, it's doubtful they would have been carrying them or had time to respond.

    It's just a horrible incident.

    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Hey, if the democrats led by Clinton can use the instance of a 7 year old getting a hold of his crack dealing uncles handgun and shooting his sister on time in Michigan as justification for promoting a magazine capacity ban, then gun nuts on the left ought to be able to use 30 different shooting sites with unarmed victims as a rallying cry for private ownership of firearms. Fair is fair...
    You might like to reflect that this has zero to do with US domestic politics. This didn't happen in the US, the issues of gun ownership in the UK are completely different and the entire culutral significance of firearms ownership is different. Why not restrict such polemics to incidents where your pro- vs. anti-gun debate has relevance.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You might like to reflect that this has zero to do with US domestic politics. This didn't happen in the US, the issues of gun ownership in the UK are completely different and the entire culutral significance of firearms ownership is different. Why not restrict such polemics to incidents where your pro- vs. anti-gun debate has relevance.


    Point is, disarming the populace seems not to solve the issue of gun violence on the island.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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