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Thread: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

  1. #131
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    No hate crimes. Hate crimes legislation rarely gets applied properly, it ends up being applied selectively. So we should do away with it in the first place.

    But no, there is no hate crime here. Just Arson.
    Somewhat off topic but...what is a proper application of hate crime laws?
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Somewhat off topic but...what is a proper application of hate crime laws?
    Its applied to crimes where hate is the motivating factor in who is chosen as the victim.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    What is a flag anyways? Simply a piece of fabric and a symbol of nationalist fevor. That's all. People burn them because they don't like nationalism. What's wrong with that?
    Then why don't they try to burn the soldiers that defend that flag? Aren't they the enforcers of the state status quo, goosestepping us toward national unity?
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Then why don't they try to burn the soldiers that defend that flag?

    They defend the country, and ideas behind the flag, not just the flag itself. IMO the two entities [flags, soldiers] were not so mutually inclusive that burning the flag can logically be considered akin to wanting to set a human being on fire.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Perhaps when right-wingers show as much respect for the principles that the flag represents as they do the fabric of which it is made, then your cries will have some merit. Patriotism is sooooo much more than waving a flag.
    You have no idea what the principles of the flag stand for disney. In fact, your political goals spit on the very history of this nation and its foundation. Although its humerous to watch you claim otherwise.

    No one limited patriotism to waving the flag but you have shown a pattern of fabricating facts instead of actually debating so color me surprised by this latest antic.

    Being angry at some policies you don't like does not justify burning the most profound symbol of America no matter what your political beliefs are. Its a pity you will never understand that basic fact.
    Last edited by texmaster; 06-04-10 at 02:38 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You have no idea what the principles of the flag stand for disney. In fact, your political goals spit on the very history of this nation and its foundation. Although its humerous to watch you claim otherwise.

    No one limited patriotism to waving the flag but you have shown a pattern of fabricating facts instead of actually debating so color me surprised by this latest antic.
    Wouldn't you say that the principles that the flag stands for are far more important than the flag itself, though? The flag itself is cloth. It is merely a symbol for those principles. The flag in and of itself is cloth and nothing more. In fact, I think it cheapens those principles to liken the principles that the flag stands for to the flag itself. Any person can wave a flag and claim to be patriotic. To me, actions speak louder than words or symbols.

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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Wouldn't you say that the principles that the flag stands for are far more important than the flag itself, though? The flag itself is cloth. It is merely a symbol for those principles. The flag in and of itself is cloth and nothing more. In fact, I think it cheapens those principles to liken the principles that the flag stands for to the flag itself. Any person can wave a flag and claim to be patriotic. To me, actions speak louder than words or symbols.
    Of course the principles are more important but that does not diminish the symbol of the flag or the incredible disrespect for the country as a whole when someone decides to burn it.

    I think it cheapens the symbol by claiming it is nothing more than cloth.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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  8. #138
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Of course the principles are more important but that does not diminish the symbol of the flag or the incredible disrespect for the country as a whole when someone decides to burn it.
    Well, like the flag symbolizes the principles of this country, the burning of the flag symbolizes protest to various government policies or stances on various issues to many people. I don't think it's just a general disrespect of this country. I think the important thing is that we have the right to do this. This is what makes us such a great country.

    I think it cheapens the symbol by claiming it is nothing more than cloth.
    It is nothing more than cloth. The principles that it stands for are what counts to me.

  9. #139
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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Well, like the flag symbolizes the principles of this country, the burning of the flag symbolizes protest to various government policies or stances on various issues to many people. I don't think it's just a general disrespect of this country. I think the important thing is that we have the right to do this. This is what makes us such a great country.
    It represents far more than the principles. It symbolizes the soldiers who defend and salute it, the revolution that brought it into the world and the symbol it stands for just like any other flag from any other nation.

    I didn't say I would outlaw it but that doesn't change my opinion that by burning it you spit in the face of all american history, servicemen and its founding for some petty naraccisitic policy you don't like at the moment.

    It is nothing more than cloth. The principles that it stands for are what counts to me.
    Then I don't understand how burning it doesn't insult those principles for you.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    It represents far more than the principles. It symbolizes the soldiers who defend and salute it, the revolution that brought it into the world and the symbol it stands for just like any other flag from any other nation.

    I didn't say I would outlaw it but that doesn't change my opinion that by burning it you spit in the face of all american history, servicemen and its founding for some petty naraccisitic policy you don't like at the moment.
    That may be the case to you, but I can assure you that most people who burn flags are doing so to protest something specific or they are doing it for shock value. I don't think they see it from the same perspective that you do.

    Then I don't understand how burning it doesn't insult those principles for you.
    Because those principles remain whether the flag is burnt or not. Burning a flag does absolutely nothing to those principles. Just as the flag is a symbol for those principles, burning the flag is a symbol for protest. That doesn't offend me. I think a lot of people do it for shock value, which is silly to me. What would offend me, however, is if we lived in a country where that type of thing wasn't allowed.

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