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Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

I read the dutch newspaper today, it has a story about the family members of three of the dead 'peace protestors'. They claim their relatives aimed to achive martyrdom, they were members of the IHH.

This story is hereby offically over for me. I'm sure it will be used to by 'anti-zionists' alike in the months to come. I will take no part in it, thumbs up for the IDF and their restraint. Personally, I'd put them all 600 on sea and give them something to really complain about.
 
bub said:
First, I don't understand why they kept on boarding while they were seeing that the guys on the ships were resisting violently.

Then, I do not think that it is really difficult to find where to jump, but yes they could get hurt in the fall.

But once more, I weigh the benefits (taking control of an humanitarian ship) with the cost (9 to 19 killed and 36 wounded + up to 10 IDF soldiers wounded + serious diplomatic troubles for Israel).
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Bub, humanitarian ships don't react that way to being boarded.
 
Djoop said:
I read the dutch newspaper today, it has a story about the family members of three of the dead 'peace protestors'. They claim their relatives aimed to achive martyrdom, they were members of the IHH.
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Yeah I've already mentioned that a few posts ago.
This story is hereby offically over for me. I'm sure it will be used to by 'anti-zionists' alike in the months to come. I will take no part in it, thumbs up for the IDF and their restraint. Personally, I'd put them all 600 on sea and give them something to really complain about.
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Appreciated.
 
bub said:
First, I don't understand why they kept on boarding while they were seeing that the guys on the ships were resisting violently.

Then, I do not think that it is really difficult to find where to jump, but yes they could get hurt in the fall.

But once more, I weigh the benefits (taking control of an humanitarian ship) with the cost (9 to 19 killed and 36 wounded + up to 10 IDF soldiers wounded + serious diplomatic troubles for Israel).
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they continued to come onboard cause first It was their orders, you dont just say " screw that I am going to watch the game" also they saw their friends and brothers to arms being killed down there ofcorse they would come down and try to save them :))
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Bub, humanitarian ships don't react that way to being boarded.
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I would if people were coming at me with guns that I didn't know were Paintball guns.


And Crazy quite fooling yourself Is Israel botched this so badly




Why would they keep firing, if the white flag had been raised? Their is nothing brave about killing civilians in cold blood like what they did.

 
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RyrineaHaruno said:
I would if people were coming at me with guns that I didn't know were Paintball guns.
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That wouldn't be very wise if you were untrained and outarmed.
 
bub said:
First, I don't understand why they kept on boarding while they were seeing that the guys on the ships were resisting violently.

Then, I do not think that it is really difficult to find where to jump, but yes they could get hurt in the fall.

But once more, I weigh the benefits (taking control of an humanitarian ship) with the cost (9 to 19 killed and 36 wounded + up to 10 IDF soldiers wounded + serious diplomatic troubles for Israel).
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Again, exactly 9 people were killed, you were already corrected on that and you continue to use wrong figures.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Bub, humanitarian ships don't react that way to being boarded.
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It's disputed but many people affirm that the boardings were illegal and thus the convoy had a right to self defence.

The correct answer to this argument is simply to point out that the convoy was going to breach a blockade, which is illegal.

And the answer to that is that the blockade itself is illegal (that's also disputed by some but the UN and the EU condemn it, and the situation of the Gazan population should be enough to convince everyone that the siege is not legitimate since it throws 1 million people into misery while not achieving any security goal for Israel)

Now we may debate about the necessity of resisting violently. I do not condone the violent behavior of some people who were on one of the ship, but I want to point out that it can not justify the action of the IDF commando, which also put itself at risk by not planning any possibility to escape if things turn messy, and which reacted with a level of force that seems really disproportionate (see the comparison with the French riots, where policemen were also ambushed and outnumbered by people who had nailguns and molotov cocktails, but showed enough restraint to avoid any loss of life)
 
Apocalypse said:
Again, exactly 9 people were killed, you were already corrected on that and you continue to use wrong figures.
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Not only that, but it is impossible to state which bullets killed whom without forensic tests. Bullets tend to ricochet quite a bit on sea ships constructed mostly of metal.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
I would if people were coming at me with guns that I didn't know were Paintball guns.


And Crazy quite fooling yourself Is Israel botched this so badly




Why would they keep firing, if the white flag had been raised?
Click to expand...


I saw that video , its editing made me die of laughter..I dont trust that news sorce for anything, i only trust raw footage and other things for facts..
As far as I am concern that video is nothing but a news story aimed at as many views as possible for personal gain. :p
 
bub said:
It's disputed but many people affirm that the boardings were illegal and thus the convoy had a right to self defence.
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Self-defense applies when one is being attacked, not when a ship is being boarded after refusing to stop when being warned twice.
 
CrazyMcCool said:
they continued to come onboard cause first It was their orders, you dont just say " screw that I am going to watch the game" also they saw their friends and brothers to arms being killed down there ofcorse they would come down and try to save them :))
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That's a very bad excuse, but it has been used many times by soldiers to justify their wrong doings.

The Belgian paracommandos who were in Rwanda and did not shoot the Hutu murderers justified their passivity by saying that "they had orders to open fire only if they were shot at"...if they had wanted to use their machineguns they would have had to get authorizations from the secretary general of the UN...and the 10 who were tortured and then killed were also captured because of a question of hierarchy...
 
Tashah said:
Not only that, but it is impossible to state which bullets killed whom without forensic tests. Bullets tend to ricochet quite a bit on sea ships constructed mostly of metal.
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I wouldn't be surprised if some of the deads were killed by their own.
 
Tashah said:
Not only that, but it is impossible to state which bullets killed whom without forensic tests. Bullets tend to ricochet quite a bit on sea ships constructed mostly of metal.
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Also its possible an activist who took a gun from a solider shot some of his own mates by mistake
 
Apocalypse said:
Self-defense applies when one is being attacked, not when a ship is being boarded after refusing to stop when being warned twice.
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Those who talk about the right of self defence also say that boardings in international waters are considered as acts of war...like blockades.
 
bub said:
Those who talk about the right of self defence also say that boardings in international waters are considered as acts of war...like blockades.
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Then the guys who say that are on ****ing drugs, since there's no such thing.
 
bub said:
(see the comparison with the French riots, where policemen were also ambushed and outnumbered by people who had nailguns and molotov cocktails, but showed enough restraint to avoid any loss of life)
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Moderator's Warning:
What did I say above in the previous Mod Box? Final warning.
 
found on facebook
 
The point stands that even if the ends justified the means..Israel will still get hell for this..

I think when the next boats come it will be handled a lot diff, and hopefully even better :)
 
bub said:
found on facebook
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Too bad there was no place empty from violent activists to land on on that ship.
Still funny though.
 
CrazyMcCool said:
The point stands that even if the ends justified the means..Israel will still get hell for this..

I think when the next boats come it will be handled a lot diff, and hopefully even better :)
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I think that Israel should send some choppers to Antarctica, take one of those big icebergs they have there(they won't miss it), and position it in the midway of the ship's course.

It's not like it's the first time it happens. :2razz:
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Bub, you can't honestly expect them to jump from the ship. They would be extremely difficult to find at night, and that's if they managed to no get sucked under the boat.
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Of course he can. In bubs mind Israel is bad and evil and the IDF are the same and therefore even though they're being attacked and having their lives put at risk because a bunch of people are attempting to kill them for stepping foot on their boat they should do everything in thier power to put THEMSELVES at risk such as trying to make more difficult shots and jumping off a boat rather than actually protecting themselves from said mob and possibly causing them harm.

Can you not see the amazing logical and impecable sense that makes IT?

:roll:

bub said:
found on facebook
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LOL

Is that a condemnation of the IDF for landing in the first place, or a condemnation of the "humanatarian peace activists" that decided to try and attack the IDF with deadly weapons before they even reached the deck?
 
Why would they keep firing, if the white flag had been raised?
I saw that video , its editing made me die of laughter..I dont trust that news sorce for anything, i only trust raw footage and other things for facts..
As far as I am concern that video is nothing but a news story aimed at as many views as possible for personal gain. :p
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How can you tell you are looking at "raw" footage? Why would you trust anything you see that is released by Israeli forces? If Israel has nothing to hide why did they confiscate all recording devices they could find?
 
Zyphlin said:
Of course he can. In bubs mind Israel is bad and evil and the IDF are the same
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You are a moderator and I believed I could expect you to show some restraint in using personal attacks. Could you please stop?


LOL

Is that a condemnation of the IDF for landing in the first place, or a condemnation of the "humanatarian peace activists" that decided to try and attack the IDF with deadly weapons before they even reached the deck?
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Neither, it's just humorous
 
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