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Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

Degreez said:
You're right, because he was condemned more. Calls for sanctions have already been heared. Where are the calls for sanctions on Israel?
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There was no UN resolution against his action, which proves my words.
No evidence of any wrong-doing? I suggest going back a page or two and reread the posts regarding the legal opinions of the event. Stating there was no Israeli wrong doing is merely your opinion.
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There is no evidence for an Israeli wrong-doing, that is the truth.
The activists were making claims that were already found to be lies, such as the claim that soldiers were not attacked at all.
The IDF has backed each of its claims with evidence.

You're speaking about the international waters issue, but that too is at most controversial and your opinion.
BBC said:
Did Israel breach international law?

This is disputed. A Turkish draft resolution circulated at the UN Security Council described the attack as a violation of international law. Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu called the raid "tantamount to banditry and piracy" and "murder conducted by a state".

Israel's foreign ministry says that under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. It adds: "Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law."
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BBC News - Q&A: Israeli raid on aid flotilla

Israel has had every right to stop the ship on international waters.
The ship's declared purpose was to run the blockade, which has given Israel the required legitimization to stop it on international waters and inspect its cargo.
If Israel had sunk which country's warship? It would be nuked by who? I don't really care for speculation based rhetoric.
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You only seem to care about your own speculation based rhetoric.
 
Apocalypse said:
There was no UN resolution against his action, which proves my words.
.
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If the USA blindly supported North Korea, there would be no UN resolution against North Korea neither...

Apocalypse said:
Israel has, according to the Israeli government, every right to stop the ship on international waters.
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bub said:
Yeah, the IDF commando was ambushed by people who had rods, the French policemen were ambushed by people who had guns firing lead ammunition, nails guns and molotov cocktails.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Police fired on in Paris suburb

The only difference is the reaction of the IDF/French police.
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You're speaking about a bunch of drug dealers that have surprised police officers in an ambush, shot them and left the scene.
I'm speaking about a group of soldiers outnumbered 6 to 1 being lynched with the full intent to kill them.
Essentially what you're saying here is that the IDF should have not reacted to live fire that is being used against them, and should have instead dropped dead, which is of course ridiculous but not surprising at all.
 
bub said:
If the USA blindly supported North Korea, there would be no UN resolution against North Korea neither...
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The USA doesn't blindly support Israel.
It didn't even side with Israel, so your claims are ridiculous but that is not surprising.

As to the quote box, no, Israel has that right in accordance with international law - just as the US has that right whenever it stops a ship on international waters to inspect its cargo.
But why argue about it? Let's wait and see.
 
Apocalypse said:
You're speaking about a bunch of drug dealers that have surprised police officers in an ambush, shot them and left the scene.
I'm speaking about a group of soldiers outnumbered 6 to 1 being lynched with the full intent to kill them.
Essentially what you're saying here is that the IDF should have not reacted to live fire that is being used against them, and should have instead dropped dead, which is of course ridiculous but not surprising at all.
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Well if you read the article, you see that the french policemen were outnumbered 7,5 to 1 being lynched with nail guns, guns firing lead cartridges and molotov cocktails.

Essentially what I'm saying here is that the French police, unlike the IDF, knows the meaning of the word "restraint" since no rioter was killed.
 
bub said:
For those who want to know the motives of the guys on the humanitarian convoy:



Why we sailed to Gaza | Lauren Booth | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
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Don't post your ****ing propaganda here pal, we've already exposed the organization behind this PR stunt for the jihadists that they are:

IHH - a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

For anyone who wants to know the actual motivations behind this they should read that link, in it they will find that the IHH has close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and funds international jihadist movements including Hamas. This was never a humanitarian campaign at all, if it were then they would have accepted the Israeli offer to come to an Israeli port to be inspected from where the goods would be transferred to Gaza.
 
bub said:
Well if you read the article, you see that the french policemen were outnumbered 7,5 to 1 being lynched with nail guns, guns firing lead cartridges and molotov cocktails.

Essentially what I'm saying here is that the French police, unlike the IDF, knows the meaning of the word "restraint" since no rioter was killed.
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If the police officers attacked with the lead ammunition and nail guns weren't on the ground bleeding they sure as hell would open fire and they would be justified.
That you're saying they would not be justified in that is absolutely ridiculous and repulsive.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Don't post your ****ing propaganda here pal, we've already exposed the organization behind this PR stunt for the jihadists that they are:

IHH - a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

For anyone who wants to know the actual motivations behind this they should read that link, in it they will find that the IHH has close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and funds international jihadist movements including Hamas. This was never a humanitarian campaign at all, if it were then they would have accepted the Israeli offer to come to an Israeli port to be inspected from where the goods would be transferred to Gaza.
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Turkish media has shown 3 out of the 4 killed Turks saying before the interception that they intend on becoming Sha'aids. (martyrs)

There is a growing suspicion that a group of nearly 100 people has blended into the crew of the Turkish ship, this group being recruited and equipped by the Global Jihad organization just for that cause, and that is the group that has attacked the soldiers when they came on board.
 
Degreez said:
Here is even more on that:

Gaza flotilla raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


According to the charges that they had weapons/nvg/etc both the governments of Turkey and Norway have already commentated on that:
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Don't give me this crap, Israel had every reason to believe that these ships were carrying arms, a) the organization behind this stunt is a sponsor of global jihadists movements and Hamas itself, and b) they refused to come to an Israeli port to be inspected where the goods would then be transfered to Gaza. This was not a humanitarian mission, anyone claiming it is, is nothing more than a Jihadists propagandist as the facts clearly contradict them yet they continue to spew their vile Islamist bull****.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Don't post your ****ing propaganda here pal, we've already exposed the organization behind this PR stunt for the jihadists that they are:

IHH - a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

For anyone who wants to know the actual motivations behind this they should read that link, in it they will find that the IHH has close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and funds international jihadist movements including Hamas. This was never a humanitarian campaign at all, if it were then they would have accepted the Israeli offer to come to an Israeli port to be inspected from where the goods would be transferred to Gaza.
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Yeah, those who resisted the boarding. That does not concern the rest of the crew and those who were on all the other ships.
 
"his was never a humanitarian campaign at all, if it were then they would have accepted the Israeli offer to come to an Israeli port to be inspected from where the goods would be transferred to Gaza. "

this is what i have been saying for far to long and no one cares..Its just a matter of logic, humanitarian != politics, rather help your fellow human out...
 
Apocalypse said:
If the police officers attacked with the lead ammunition and nail guns weren't on the ground bleeding they sure as hell would open fire and they would be justified.
That you're saying they would not be justified in that is absolutely ridiculous and repulsive.
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You should read very carefully: I'm not saying they should not open fire at the rioters, I'm saying they should do it with restraint. To see if restraint was used, it is useful to compare with similar situations, and the riots in France show that it is possible for the policemen to escape without having to kill many rioters.
 
bub said:
Yeah, those who resisted the boarding. That does not concern the rest of the crew and those who were on all the other ships.
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The only deaths and injuries were sustained on the ship's top deck, and as the footage shows the only "activists" there were those same jihadists that have attacked the soldiers.
 
bub said:
You should read very carefully: I'm not saying they should not open fire at the rioters, I'm saying they should do it with restraint. To see if restraint was used, it is useful to compare with similar situations, and the riots in France show that it is possible for the policemen to escape without having to kill many rioters.
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Again, you're comparing apples and oranges.
The officers couldn't react because they were hit, and the drug dealers have escaped the scene and haven't finished them off.
Simply put, seeing the footages from the ship, if those soldiers would have not opened fire they'd end up dying - all of them.
That's not a possibility.
 
Moderator's Warning:
This thread is specifically about the flotilla event. Let's keep it there.
 
I avoided responding to this for the first few days because I wanted to have an actual CLUE and not just talk out of my ass based on bias...so...

1-Its OBVIOUS this wasnt some 'peace' flotilla. These guys fully intended to provoke.

2-The Israelis government played right into their hand. If you cant see this play coming from a mile away...maybe you shouldnt ought to be in politics. there were a LOT more and better options. Israel SHOULD have gone full on with cameras and a PR blitz rather than board the ship. Now they have given asshats like Achmadinajihadiwhackjob more PR ammo.

3-The administration is leaving Israel out to dry.

4-People see what they want to see. The response to this incident is very telling...NOT for the Israeli/Palestinians...but for the commentors.
 
Apocalypse said:
Again, you're comparing apples and oranges.
The officers couldn't react because they were hit, and the drug dealers have escaped the scene and haven't finished them off.
Simply put, seeing the footages from the ship, if those soldiers would have not opened fire they'd end up dying - all of them.
That's not a possibility.
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You do not know, and I do not think lead shots are enough to prevent someone from fleeing/reacting.

As for the IDF commandos, they could not retreat because they got the bad idea to board from helicopters, but they still could have escaped by jumping off the ship.
 
I agree about israel falling right into the hands of the whole media blitz..

It was a tactical and logical mistake on Israel's side..One thats been done over and over again 2 many times if you ask me ;)
There is a new fleet i think now on its way :roll: this is going to be...originial?
 
bub said:
You do not know, and I do not think lead shots are enough to prevent someone from fleeing/reacting.

As for the IDF commandos, they could not retreat because they got the bad idea to board from helicopters, but they still could have escaped by jumping off the ship.
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Some have jumped off the ship when they felt that they're going to be killed.
 
bub said:
You do not know, and I do not think lead shots are enough to prevent someone from fleeing/reacting.

As for the IDF commandos, they could not retreat because they got the bad idea to board from helicopters, but they still could have escaped by jumping off the ship.
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that is exacly what they did some jumped off the ship, my friend's brother who was one of the commandos had his hand broke the second he landed by a metal pole and jumped off the ship chased by a guy trying to stab him.
^^
 
Another footage released; soldiers on a speed boat next to the Mavi Marmara ship, the big Turkish ship where the battle has taken place at, are attacked before even boarding the ship.

 
bub said:
You do not know, and I do not think lead shots are enough to prevent someone from fleeing/reacting.

As for the IDF commandos, they could not retreat because they got the bad idea to board from helicopters, but they still could have escaped by jumping off the ship.
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Bub, you can't honestly expect them to jump from the ship. They would be extremely difficult to find at night, and that's if they managed to no get sucked under the boat.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Bub, you can't honestly expect them to jump from the ship. They would be extremely difficult to find at night, and that's if they managed to no get sucked under the boat.
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First, I don't understand why they kept on boarding while they were seeing that the guys on the ships were resisting violently.

Then, I do not think that it is really difficult to find where to jump, but yes they could get hurt in the fall.

But once more, I weigh the benefits (taking control of an humanitarian ship) with the cost (9 to 19 killed and 36 wounded + up to 10 IDF soldiers wounded + serious diplomatic troubles for Israel).
 
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