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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #931
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    And just you dare say something about Spain(When you're actually saying something about Europe)...
    You have both tried to rubbish Europe in general and Spain in particular on several occasions during prior engagements with me. Unlike you, I can recognise the positives and the negatives of my country and my continent. I don't see every criticism of Spain or Europe as an attack on their very continued existence. I don't think the either the EU or Spain is perfect and I think both can be criticised openly and frankly without necessarily resorting to claims of racism or prejudice, even if those are the motivating factors of the attacks. I think you both got involved in the thread attacking Spain for Ceuta and Melilla, didn't you?

    Most importantly, unlike you two, I don't act as cheerleader for a régime no matter what excesses it engages in. I woud be more disposed to taking your opinions seriously had I read a single post by either of you making the mildest criticism of the actions of the state of Israel against the Palestinians. I've been here a few months now and I've never read any such critique. I could list a few of my own posts in support of Israel, however. I could link to even more that are critical of Hamas, Islamists and anti-semites too.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What about the disproportionate criticism of Israel? Is that not wrong too?
    Bullseye.


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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    An appeal to prejudice does not show "common sense".
    Yes, it does. To assume that those associated with the boats have motive to lie and distort information but then to completely and utterly ignore Israel's motive to do the same is idiotic and illogical, the antithesis from common sense.

    Is Israel MORE believable at this point in my mind? Definitely. But I don't believe their absolute angels and I don't completely ignore the notion of potentially putting out misleading, manipulated, or incomplete information in hopes of improving their position in the matter.

    Neither does the acceptance of politically motivated second hand accounts and carefully edited footage when the raw footage is quite redily available.
    I thought, from what was said in this thread even by you I believe, that the raw footage ISN'T available, that Israel wouldn't release it so we didn't see their tactics? If I'm wrong in that understanding, np, I'll have to try and find the footage once I'm home and have access to video.

    And after you laughly try to lecture me about appealing to prejudice you immedietely use the same appeal in discrediting the other side. Yes, they had definite motivations for their own self interests in their given accounts...so does Israel. One is not black as night and the other white as wind driven snow.

    And, of course, I would be remiss were I to fail to mention once again the logical fallacy of believing something just because all one's little mates believe it, and that belief is based upon nothing but the enormous numerical advantage of those wishing to engineer opinion in their favor.
    What the **** are you even talking about here?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Israel has just allowed and transferred into Gaza the entire of the ship's humanitarian aid cargo, which, mind you, is no more than two thirds of what Israel enters into the Gaza Strip weekly.
    Which is still only a quarter of what the UN says Gaza needs... So Israel lets one or two boatloads in this week - what happens next week when Gaza is back to the absolute bare minimum allowed in?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From Reuters:

    Note that Reuters didn't report that Israel had interpreted the video that showed the clubbing and stabbing of two marines. Reuters mentioned what the video showed. Hence, on the issue as to whether the Israelis were attacked with knives, the answer is that they were.

    The other issue cited by a TV analyst is quite disturbing. If, in fact it is true, it indicates that at least some of the individuals on the ship had deadly intent.

    As noted previously, the investigation will be crucial. Those on the ship who engaged in violence should be prosecuted. Until the facts have been established, only those who clearly lack material knowledge and those who had no role in the violence should be released. The remainder should be detained until the facts have been established, with innocent ones being released, and the others prosecuted appropriately.
    Don, it's equally important that Israel release footage of when and how the Israeli soldiers opened fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    j-mac Gaza has tunnels through to Egypt where they smuggle every day. If they wanted weapons they would use the tunnels.
    Alexa, the tunnels are controlled by Hamas apparently, they use the tunnels to smuggle in weapons and high value items. Ordinary Gazans have to make do with whatever Israel allows in. As a result - further "collective punishment" - not just by Israel limiting supplies but also by Hamas who control what goes in and out.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You have both tried to rubbish Europe in general and Spain in particular on several occasions during prior engagements with me.
    I reject that claim.
    Unlike you, I can recognise the positives and the negatives of my country and my continent.
    I reject that too.
    I don't see every criticism of Spain or Europe as an attack on their very continued existence.
    Obviously I find that to be false.
    I don't think the either the EU or Spain is perfect and I think both can be criticised openly and frankly without necessarily resorting to claims of racism or prejudice, even if those are the motivating factors of the attacks.
    Maybe, maybe not.
    I think you both got involved in the thread attacking Spain for Ceuta and Melilla, didn't you?
    Nope, that would be incorrect.
    Most importantly, unlike you two, I don't act as cheerleader for a régime no matter what excesses it engages in.
    Me neither.
    Who's the third guy? Gardener ain't no Israeli, but seems like you really have your own definition for who's an Israeli.
    I woud be more disposed to taking your opinions seriously had I read a single post by either of you making the mildest criticism of the actions of the state of Israel against the Palestinians. I've been here a few months now and I've never read any such critique. I could list a few of my own posts in support of Israel, however. I could link to even more that are critical of Hamas, Islamists and anti-semites too.
    You haven't found such post because you weren't looking for one.

    Clearly your issue is not with me personally, as this post of yours is proving.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Perhaps its time the people of gaza try and stand up..I bet you they outnumber Hamas and would get support form Israel..

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I was especially surprised by your reaction because most of the people who thanked that post are not pro-Israelis.
    That doesn't mean it was funny. How many times have we seen photoshop montages of political leaders superimposed over the Titanic poster? It might have been slighlty funny had it been well done and had used the instantly recognisable face of Ahmadinejad. I recognised R.T. Erdoğan, but who was the other one? Khamenei? Don't think so, I've never seen a photo of him without a turban. My criticism isn't political, it's comedical.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Israel has just allowed and transferred into Gaza the entire of the ship's humanitarian aid cargo, which, mind you, is no more than two thirds of what Israel enters into the Gaza Strip weekly.
    The entirety of the ships' cargo? So, no weapons cache? No bomb-making equipment?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Which is still only a quarter of what the UN says Gaza needs... So Israel lets one or two boatloads in this week - what happens next week when Gaza is back to the absolute bare minimum allowed in?
    So the UN says.
    Anyway if we are to stay on-topic I must point towards the fact that the shipment was carrying about two thirds of what Israel brings into Gaza every week.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    The entirety of the ships' cargo? So, no weapons cache? No bomb-making equipment?

    they did find premade weapons and supply for rockets, which they took out and the rest they gave to Gaza
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