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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    It was live footage from the ship not edit in anyway, so sorry CrazyMcCool. They were firing even with the white flag was raised.






    This is something I watched, and I think he isn't biased about events that we know of so far in this fiasco. However he is very critical of the raid on the ships thought, because he wants more evidence. He is a Turkish American, and can translate some of the wording in the back ground via the loud speakers. He also think no one is right in this.
    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 06-02-10 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Or just common sense that until more facts come out you don't believe 100% either side...both of which have major self interest in painting the story in any way to their favor...until there's enough evidence to coorberate the stories or fix most of the inconsistancies.

    Or you know, you can just be as single mindedly propoganda focused as some on the other side in this thread and mindlessly believe everything you're told for your side while insulting the other side with idiotic name calling based on specious generalizations at best.

    Either way.
    An appeal to prejudice does not show "common sense".

    Neither does the acceptance of politically motivated second hand accounts and carefully edited footage when the raw footage is quite redily available.

    And, of course, I would be remiss were I to fail to mention once again the logical fallacy of believing something just because all one's little mates believe it, and that belief is based upon nothing but the enormous numerical advantage of those wishing to engineer opinion in their favor.

    But do carry on, o.k.?
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a) the disputed terrritories are not claimed by any sovereign state, and b) the governing authorities of the disputed territories are not high contracting parties to the GC nor do they abide by any of the provisions therein. The "Palestinians" are frankly lucky that the Israelis grant them such humane treatment rather than implementing the policies of the surrounding Muslim states.
    If you bothered to read the link you'll find my and your position explained as well as information abour who they are and those in disagreement about whether it applies to the Israel and Palestinian conflicts in Gaza and other areas. Basically what we have a series of international institutions on one side and Israel and you on the other.

    I'm with the specialist international institutions on this - and I'll add as I have various times before on this thread - none of these international agreements are enforcible so it really doesn't matter whether Israel applies the treaties it signed up to - until America forces it to.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Its not a personal attack, its a comment on your apparent views as displayed in this thread and an answer to his question. You've shown repeatedly through your statements in this thread to have absolutely zero care for the well being of the IDF, another sign that your statements concerning your belief in both sides stories to be untrue, while constantly worrying about the well being of the people on the boats to the point of suggesting that the IDF should actively put their lives at risk so as to reduce the possible harm done to people attacking them. This was evident in your desire for them to "shoot to wound" and your "jump off the boat" comments.
    About my supposed hate of Israel:
    - I challenge you to provide quotes where I criticize something else than the blockade, the colonies and the disproportionate use of force by the IDF, three points which are actually those of, for example, the European Union.
    - I said in this thread that I understood the Israeli security concerns

    About my supposed hate of IDF soldiers: in this thread
    - I said I understood that they could get hurt if they tried to escape by jumping off the boats
    - I never said they had no right to defend themselves or even to use lethal force, as long as it was proportionate

    About my supposed bias:
    - I actually agree with the IDF version that it was the rioters on the boat who started using violence, while the pro-palestinian version is that the soldiers started shooting for no reason
    - I also agree on the IDF version that there were weapons (slingshots and a molotov cocktail for example) on board, while eyewitnesses claim that there were no weapons on board
    - I even admit that the legality of the boardings is "disputed"

    What you call "hatred towards Israel" is in fact trying to take human lives into account by considering that proportionality is primordial.

    On the other side, it seems from the posts of my opponents that the lives of the people on board have little importance (trying to break a blockade does not deserve to be punished by death), just as the health of the Gazan population.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Perhaps the comedic culture of your country isn't that well developed. That's neither an original nor well-executed satire. But if it makes YOU laugh...
    Wow.
    First sentence is a generalization, the other is a show of anger towards a satirical picture.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Perhaps the comedic culture of your country isn't that well developed.
    We already know what you think of his country and his people.

    You have made that abundantly clear in dozens and dozens of posts.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    On the other side, it seems from the posts of my opponents that the lives of the people on board have little importance (trying to break a blockade does not deserve to be punished by death), just as the health of the Gazan population.
    I believe Israeli government officails (including the PM, Netanyahu) have expressed regret however the deaths?
    That they do not believe it is the fault of the IDF soldiers, but rather the fault of those who have tried to kill them (and ended up getting killed) is a whole different issue.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    We already know what you think of his country and his people.

    You have made that abundantly clear in dozens and dozens of posts.
    And just you dare say something about Spain(When you're actually saying something about Europe)...
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    This whole fiasco just shows the bias and anti-Israeli sentiment of the UN. It gives the mouth foaming nations a platform to slobber over, and in the end I hope Israel winds up vindicated and essentially slapping the face of the mouth foaming nations and the UN. Seriously, the UN is making me sick with how they treat Israel and how they generally function. The facts are that the flotilla resisted the blockade, was borded, and IDF soldiers attacked by "peaceful" humanitarian aid distributers that just happened to have ties to terrorist organizations. You can't spin this to make Israel the villain.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Don't post your ****ing propaganda here pal, we've already exposed the organization behind this PR stunt for the jihadists that they are:

    IHH - a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

    For anyone who wants to know the actual motivations behind this they should read that link, in it they will find that the IHH has close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and funds international jihadist movements including Hamas. This was never a humanitarian campaign at all, if it were then they would have accepted the Israeli offer to come to an Israeli port to be inspected from where the goods would be transferred to Gaza.
    You might like to lower the volume of your outrage. You can't be unaware that feelings are running fairly high on both sides of this dispute.

    You can call the article propaganda if you wish. The article was written by the sister-in-law of a former UK PM. It would be hazardous for her to invent a story like this. I dare say that had Jeb Bush's wife written a similar article, you wouldn't be so quick to rubbish it. We heard YOUR propaganda about the organisers of the aid convoy and I've no doubt your loyalty to the cause will be appreciated. A thread like this generates NO objective truth as, in such circumstances, none exists. The humanitarian volunteers and the Israeli soldiers, all of whom have first-hand accounts of the incidents, can be guaranteed to have different recollections of what went on. Neither are necessarily lying, merely reporting the incidents from their POV. How might YOU go about verifying the 'objective truth' of the matter without calling one side or the other liars?

    The only really objective truth that seems uncontested is the fact that between 9 and 19 people died, none of them Israeli soldiers.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 06-02-10 at 11:57 AM.
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