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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Probably because they heard the helicopters? When they are less than 200 yards away they are quite easy to hear. And in some news reports it was stated that the commandos set of a non lethal explosion to distract attention from their boarding. That right there is cause for anyone to think they are under attack.
    "Non-lethal explosion," or in non-spin mode, flashbangs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    In big ships like that there are always kitchens, and in kitchens there are alwyas knives.

    As for the rods, I don't often go on board of ships but I think it's not very difficult to find one, you just need to find a small pipe, which you can find everywhere in ships
    Do either of you honestly believe that it was happenstance that these people had all these things handy? The knives, the bats, the pipes, the catapults, the slingshots with marbles, etc.?

    There's exactly one explanation for why they had all those things at hand that they used as weapons - they planned on using them as weapons, but wanted to be able to make the exact argument you're making right now.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Link? Even if true, that's part of civil disobedience, and can do nothing but help the cause. If MLK was "roughed up" by the police, did he respond by attacking them with bats and knives, or try to take their guns?
    who is MLK?

    The person on the news said that on one of the 'non violent' ships which he was on, people decided to sit in passive resistance. He said they were beaten. This was an elderly American man. He said his friend was beaten black and blue and was in hospital but the Israeli's were letting no one see him because they did not want people to see the state he was in.

    Now I watched this man on tonight's BBC news and I am sure he was being completely honest as to what he knows.

    I know you do not believe in civil disobedience and passive resistance and I do. Violence against non violence is violence.

    To me, assuming what this man says is true, it indicates to me that the army were heavy handed for the situation

    The boat where there was violence was the first boat and the largest. Yes, people fought the Israelis but the Israelis were also detonating things to get people's attention away from the people parachuting in. Likely they felt under attack. If reports of attempted lynchings are accurate then there is no excuse for that. That is criminal activity, no excuses available. We will need to wait and see.

    The situation is still far from clear.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 07:24 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    You little propagandists seriously need to get freaking educated on this whole matter, because Israel offered to allow the ship to enter an Israeli port where the food and medical supplies would then be transferred to Gaza, that deal was rejected because this was never about humanitarian aid it was about a PR stunt led by proven terrorist supporters with links to global jihadists.
    i keep seeing this argument to justify the israeli assault on a vessel carrying humanitarian supplies to a gaza under seige

    why would one expect israel, which has imposed a seige and denies the gazans access to the supplies the ship carried, to now enable the transport of those goods to the gazans
    it defies logic
    one can only conclude that the supplies would have been pilfered with only those not subject to embargo from reaching the gaza destination
    otherwise, the israelis would be found to have effectively discontinued their own embargo
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    who is MLK?
    Martin Luther King Jr.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do either of you honestly believe that it was happenstance that these people had all these things handy? The knives, the bats, the pipes, the catapults, the slingshots with marbles, etc.?
    About the knives: yes of course, as I've explained kitchen usually contain knives

    About the bats & pipes: I don't know what they've used exactly but if it is just pipes, then yes too

    About catapults: what kind of catapult? Can you show me a picture/video where I could see one?

    About slingshots: are you considering that as a weapon?!?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    BBC News - Gaza flotilla - Eye witness accounts of Israeli raid

    People say they were beaten before the bloody massacre of the Mavi Marmara.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I have yet to see any evidence that customary international law would require Israel not to act here. I've also not seen any evidence that it did not have inherent authority to do what it did. I don't think that it's don who needs the better grasp on international law.
    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/conventi...s/closindx.htm
    SECTION 3. INNOCENT PASSAGE IN THE TERRITORIAL SEA

    SUBSECTION A. RULES APPLICABLE TO ALL SHIPS

    Article17

    Right of innocent passage

    Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.

    Article18

    Meaning of passage

    1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of:

    (a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or

    (b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead or port facility.

    2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.
    SUBSECTION B. RULES APPLICABLE TO

    MERCHANT SHIPS AND GOVERNMENT SHIPS

    OPERATED FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES

    Article27

    Criminal jurisdiction on board a foreign ship

    1. The criminal jurisdiction of the coastal State should not be exercised on board a foreign ship passing through the territorial sea to arrest any person or to conduct any investigation in connection with any crime committed on board the ship during its passage, save only in the following cases:

    (a) if the consequences of the crime extend to the coastal State;

    (b) if the crime is of a kind to disturb the peace of the country or the good order of the territorial sea;

    (c) if the assistance of the local authorities has been requested by the master of the ship or by a diplomatic agent or consular officer of the flag State; or

    (d) if such measures are necessary for the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances.

    2. The above provisions do not affect the right of the coastal State to take any steps authorized by its laws for the purpose of an arrest or investigation on board a foreign ship passing through the territorial sea after leaving internal waters.

    3. In the cases provided for in paragraphs 1 and 2, the coastal State shall, if the master so requests, notify a diplomatic agent or consular officer of the flag State before taking any steps, and shall facilitate contact between such agent or officer and the ship's crew. In cases of emergency this notification may be communicated while the measures are being taken.

    4. In considering whether or in what manner an arrest should be made, the local authorities shall have due regard to the interests of navigation.

    5. Except as provided in Part XII or with respect to violations of laws and regulations adopted in accordance with Part V, the coastal State may not take any steps on board a foreign ship passing through the territorial sea to arrest any person or to conduct any investigation in connection with any crime committed before the ship entered the territorial sea, if the ship, proceeding from a foreign port, is only passing through the territorial sea without entering internal waters.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Why? I am sure they do not. The Irish are a stubborn bunch once they have decided on something. Maybe there are just going to be boat after boat after boat.

    I do not think there will be any more killings.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 07:34 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    "Non-lethal explosion," or in non-spin mode, flashbangs.
    A flash bang or a stun grenade is military equipment. What was the first action from the forceful boarding? The commandos blinding the passengers. Any reasonable person would be under the assumption that they were under attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do either of you honestly believe that it was happenstance that these people had all these things handy? The knives, the bats, the pipes, the catapults, the slingshots with marbles, etc.?
    No. I think they saw the swarm of helicopters from a distance and realized what could happen. Usually if you saw a helicopter in Gaza, it meant you were gonna be blown up by Hellfire missiles. At this point in time, the passengers had done nothing wrong. Israel already broke protocol call by not alerting Turkey (it was the Turkish flag that was flying on the lead ship) and requesting them to contact the captain.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's exactly one explanation for why they had all those things at hand that they used as weapons - they planned on using them as weapons, but wanted to be able to make the exact argument you're making right now.
    More loose speculation. It's more likely they were alarmed from what was actually happening. They have all the right to defense in this situation because they were in international waters. You think human rights activists don't know their own rights while traversing international waters (towards a country that has no respect for international law nonetheless)?

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