Page 74 of 147 FirstFirst ... 2464727374757684124 ... LastLast
Results 731 to 740 of 1469

Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #731
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    ...then still call it a "blockade" but let the food enter, at least.
    You little propagandists seriously need to get freaking educated on this whole matter, because Israel offered to allow the ship to enter an Israeli port where the food and medical supplies would then be transferred to Gaza, that deal was rejected because this was never about humanitarian aid it was about a PR stunt led by proven terrorist supporters with links to global jihadists.

  2. #732
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Of course they wanted to create an incident, and they succeeded.

    As for Israel offering to deliver the food...then why don't they simply end the blockade? Why do they still prevent things like pasta, shampoo, coffee or chocolate to enter Gaza? That's what they should have done: check what enters Gaza but let everything enter Gaza, except weapons.
    Because that alleviates pressure on Hamas. Israel as they are in a state of armed conflict with Hamas have no obligation to the "Palestinians" save to allow through things; such as, food and medicine. Why would they allow a people who voted for their extermination to have such creature comforts as coffee and chocolate?

  3. #733
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    But people have complained about being 'roughed up' on them when they tried passive resistence.
    Link? Even if true, that's part of civil disobedience, and can do nothing but help the cause. If MLK was "roughed up" by the police, did he respond by attacking them with bats and knives, or try to take their guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    The police killed no one, that's why it is a success. Of course there were a lot of damages, many cars burnt, but that's nothing compared to human lives. If I was someone whose brother got killed, I'm pretty sure I'd be more than pissed off.
    Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Yeah but it takes some level of violence to kill 10 to 20 people and wound 36 others, more than what is likely to be needed to stop an attack of people armed with clubs and one guy with a pistol. Compare with the casualty rates of the riots in the French suburbs, 128 policemen wounded and no rioter killed.
    And if this had happened on a street during the daytime in a planned protest with the proper equipment, I'm sure nobody would have been killed. However, it happened at night, on a boat, with activists attacking out of nowhere as soldiers dropped from a helicoptor one by one. It's not really analogous.

    I have no idea of how it precizely happened or how it has started, but it is difficult to me to conceive that they would have killed the first 2 or 3 commandos if the boarding had been aborted, since they apparently did not have firearms. If their goal had been to kill, they'd have taken guns with them!
    No, they absolutely wouldn't. Had they brought guns, it would have been clear that they were trying to start violence and there would be little sympathy for them. That's why they made sure to bring a whole bunch of things that could be used as weapons, but could also be held out as having a peaceful purpose. They knew exactly what they were doing, both in having those weapons at hand and in trying to take the soldiers guns.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #734
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 03:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    About the legality of the boardings:

    Turkey had earlier accused Israel of violating the international laws that prohibits countries from interfering in the navigation of ships on international waters. Some experts, however, argue, citing examples from the past, that not every instance of interference on international waters would necessarily mean a breach of the law.

    “Countries could stop vessels at a reasonable distance in international waters if they believe that they could pose a security threat,” Hakan Hanlı, a senior attorney-at-law and an expert on international law, told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review on Tuesday. The lawyer, however, also criticized the way Israeli security forces handled the situation.

    “The first thing Israel had to do, according to law, was to show themselves to the boats and inform them that they’re ready to interfere. Next, according to the same laws, they should have fired at the front of the boats to slow them down or change their course,” he said. “If the boat doesn’t stop, they are not to fire, but to come abreast of the boat with their own boat in order to change its course.”

    In addition, Hanlı said, “the Israeli government should have contacted other countries, especially Turkey, to ensure that the country whose flag is flown on the boat contacts the captain and orders a change of course.” Israel, he added, did none of these things.
    Turkey launches long-term diplomatic war against Israel - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

  5. #735
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 03:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's why they made sure to bring a whole bunch of things that could be used as weapons, but could also be held out as having a peaceful purpose. They knew exactly what they were doing, both in having those weapons at hand and in trying to take the soldiers guns.
    Well you can hurt someone with every object. You can throw books, laptops, bottles...you could kill someone with a civil code if you threw it at his face.

  6. #736
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    01-26-14 @ 01:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,216

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    "except in accordance with this convention..." is the key qualifier. For that, one has to go to Articles 95 and 96. The ships that are immune from inspection are spelled out. The flotilla would not qualify.
    You are grasping at straws don. I have provided evidence that humanitarian vessel are exempt from attack. I have provided evidence that it is customary international law for Israel to abide by the rules of innocent passage in international waters.

    You are repeatedly stating Israel had the right to inspect a ship in international waters, well outside its jurisdiction. You provide no cite for this. No piece of international law that grants power for Israel to exercise authority outside its jurisdiction. I am sorry, but you need a better grasp on international law.

  7. #737
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Well you can hurt someone with every object. You can throw books, laptops, bottles...you could kill someone with a civil code if you threw it at his face.
    And yet we didn't see many people fighting with civil codes, but there were plenty who had bats, knives, and other weapons at hand within moments of the Israeli's coming down from the helicoptor. Why do you think those things were all up on deck as opposed to being down in the holds?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #738
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    01-26-14 @ 01:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,216

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And yet we didn't see many people fighting with civil codes, but there were plenty who had bats, knives, and other weapons at hand within moments of the Israeli's coming down from the helicoptor. Why do you think those things were all up on deck as opposed to being down in the holds?
    Probably because they heard the helicopters? When they are less than 200 yards away they are quite easy to hear. And in some news reports it was stated that the commandos set of a non lethal explosion to distract attention from their boarding. That right there is cause for anyone to think they are under attack.

  9. #739
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 03:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And yet we didn't see many people fighting with civil codes, but there were plenty who had bats, knives, and other weapons at hand within moments of the Israeli's coming down from the helicoptor. Why do you think those things were all up on deck as opposed to being down in the holds?
    In big ships like that there are always kitchens, and in kitchens there are alwyas knives.

    As for the rods, I don't often go on board of ships but I think it's not very difficult to find one, you just need to find a small pipe, which you can find everywhere in ships

  10. #740
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    You are grasping at straws don. I have provided evidence that humanitarian vessel are exempt from attack. I have provided evidence that it is customary international law for Israel to abide by the rules of innocent passage in international waters.

    You are repeatedly stating Israel had the right to inspect a ship in international waters, well outside its jurisdiction. You provide no cite for this. No piece of international law that grants power for Israel to exercise authority outside its jurisdiction. I am sorry, but you need a better grasp on international law.
    I have yet to see any evidence that customary international law would require Israel not to act here. I've also not seen any evidence that it did not have inherent authority to do what it did. I don't think that it's don who needs the better grasp on international law.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •