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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    You come from the belief that Israel is in the right and some of the passengers are in the wrong.
    Alexa,

    From what I can gather, it is clear that some of the people on the ship engaged in violence. We'll see what additional facts are revealed.

    Are you saying that Israel can keep our people indefinitely without trial?
    I don't know Israel's law, so I cannot speculate. I do believe that if there is a mass effort to refuse to cooperate, the investigative process can be delayed, as it will take longer to gather evidence needed to assess whom should be investigated further/prospecuted and whom should be released.

    In principle, I do not support indefinite detention in the absence of trial. I believe there comes a time when one either has sufficient evidence to try and convict a suspect or one doesn't and the suspect should be released.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    When captured and shipped to Israel, they are givin the choice to be jailed in Israel, or to be shipped off to their respectable nations..
    I guess the ones that want to stay will be facing court, which will prob end up with them serving time.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMcCool View Post
    When captured and shipped to Israel, they are givin the choice to be jailed in Israel, or to be shipped off to their respectable nations..
    I guess the ones that want to stay will be facing court, which will prob end up with them serving time.
    And the ones who are facing court will not be jailed, if the other Nations are calling for everyone too be realsed

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Alexa,

    From what I can gather, it is clear that some of the people on the ship engaged in violence. We'll see what additional facts are revealed.
    You know I have also agreed with this. The problem is that the other people involved were Israeli's. It is not impossible their actions produced the reaction of violence and that no one is really all that much to blame. It is simply something which went desperately wrong. That is one possibility.

    It is also possible that the actions of Israel scared the hell out of the people, they believed they were under attack. To some extent that is Israel's fault but I cannot see her admitting to that. Indeed to some extent I can understand why she would be reluctant to, given the response of the world.



    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    I don't know Israel's law, so I cannot speculate. I do believe that if there is a mass effort to refuse to cooperate, the investigative process can be delayed, as it will take longer to gather evidence needed to assess whom should be investigated further/prospecuted and whom should be released.

    In principle, I do not support indefinite detention in the absence of trial. I believe there comes a time when one either has sufficient evidence to try and convict a suspect or one doesn't and the suspect should be released.
    I think this has now been answered by CrazyMcCool. If it is their choice, I am all right with it.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 06:24 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMcCool View Post
    When captured and shipped to Israel, they are givin the choice to be jailed in Israel, or to be shipped off to their respectable nations..
    I guess the ones that want to stay will be facing court, which will prob end up with them serving time.
    Right, that is what I heard on our news this morning. Some of them were choosing jail rather than deportation. It is a protest.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    And the ones who are facing court will not be jailed, if the other Nations are calling for everyone too be realsed
    A bit of a strange one. I heard they still wanted to go to Gaza. Must be very strange.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I strongly disagree. First, there were some casualties. Second, you're saying that despite the fact that those riots caused millions of euros in damage, injured hundreds of police officers (and many more rioters), and are repeated almost every year, the government policy is a success simply because there are only a small handful of people who are actually killed? If I were someone whose car got torched and father got put into a coma, I'm pretty sure I'd be kind of pissed despite the fact that nobody I knew was actually killed.
    The police killed no one, that's why it is a success. Of course there were a lot of damages, many cars burnt, but that's nothing compared to human lives. If I was someone whose brother got killed, I'm pretty sure I'd be more than pissed off.






    Yes you can, but I'm still not sure how that's relevant. Police officers are always trained to shoot for the chest rather than the extremities because shooting for an extremity is incredibly risky and unlikely to serve the actual purpose, which is to stop the attack.
    Yeah but it takes some level of violence to kill 10 to 20 people and wound 36 others, more than what is likely to be needed to stop an attack of people armed with clubs and one guy with a pistol. Compare with the casualty rates of the riots in the French suburbs, 128 policemen wounded and no rioter killed.


    I think that our views on what's reasonable are too far apart to be reconciled. I can't imagine anyone looking at their colleague getting stomped by a crowd and saying "well, I better not go down there and help. They can probably just make it to the edge and jump in the ocean and we'll all go on our merry way."
    I have no idea of how it precizely happened or how it has started, but it is difficult to me to conceive that they would have killed the first 2 or 3 commandos if the boarding had been aborted, since they apparently did not have firearms. If their goal had been to kill, they'd have taken guns with them!



    And a lot less than there would have been had the military not used restraint.
    Yeah, they could have boarded with flamethrowers, or sunk the boat directly!



    The soldiers were equipped with paintball guns, which they were told to use if necessary. They also had sidearms, but were instructed not to use them unless fired upon. According to reports, they were not used until an activist stole one away from a soldier in a pile and started firing at the soldiers.
    I know

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    Talking Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    And the ones who are facing court will not be jailed, if the other Nations are calling for everyone too be realsed
    I guess, but who knows this is Israel we are talking about lol
    Also we got Bibi, and he is the biggest Idiot to be PM in a long LONG time...How did he get to be PM again after his first reign of Idiocracy I will never understand..( I do but I dont get why!?!?!?!?!?! )

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    If their goal had been to kill, they'd have taken guns with them!
    Next time they will, and they will.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    You don't need to go "Israel is lying" and "the humanatarians are telling the truth" in specific, literal words to basically be saying those exact same things.
    Well in fact it is not true at all.

    In none of my posts I've said that the guys on the ships had not started using violence.

    But that is the Israeli version, the version of the people who organized the convoy is that the Israeli soldiers started shooting for no reason.

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