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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Is it at all possible that both sides are wrong? Or should I stop smoking crack.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Is it at all possible that both sides are wrong? Or should I stop smoking crack.

    Nah, just remember puff, puff, pass.


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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I honestly don't give much **** what people and government world wide feel about it at the moment with such little bit of information out and so much of it conflicting, nor do I think you've got any grounds to speak 24 hours after for "the world"
    Well every EU country, Turkey, the UN...everyone condemns Israel. It's a bit early and we still don't have the full story, but bottom line there are 10 to 20 deads and 36 wounded on one side and 5 wounded on the other side...it's impossible to justify so many casualties.

    There's a blockaid there, you know there's a blockaid there, you're attempting to bypass the blockaid, you are an idiot either trying to prove a point at which point you deserve what ends up coming to you or you're dong it specifically to antagonize at which point you deserve what ends up coming to you. As to who shot first or who did what first, I don't know, but I do know there's no chance in hell that the people on the ship were absolute positive angels the entire time in every way and are absolutely innocent in this...that much I know with almost complete certainty, to what extent is unknown.
    The point is that these people were trying to bypass the blockade because they say it is illegal, they obviously did this to make Israel look bad, and they succeeded much more than they had hoped.


    However thank you for illustrating my point Bub. Every comment you make in this thread comes from the premise and the foundation that everything Israel is saying is a lie and everything the other side is saying is truth. The other side was only carrying food and wheelchairs
    We don't know yet and I've said earlier in this thread that I understood Israel's security concerns. What I strongly condemn is the obviously disproportionate use of force and the boarding in international waters.

    , the blockaid is unquestionably illegal
    According to the UN and the EU, yes

    , IDF soldiers who were seriouesly outnumbered had absolutely no justification for using lethal force
    Not at such extend


    etc. Every bit of your argument comes from the position that Israel is Bad and Lies and the other side is pure, innocent, and should be applauded and believed.
    I strongly oppose the blockade, so I can't condemn attempts to bypass it. And I never said Israel lied, I just said there is no reason to believe the IDF more than the German MEP on board.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Well every EU country, Turkey, the UN...everyone condemns Israel. It's a bit early and we still don't have the full story, but bottom line there are 10 to 20 deads and 36 wounded on one side and 5 wounded on the other side...it's impossible to justify so many casualties.
    You keep saying this, but what are you basing it on?

    If a large group of people in Ohio tried to attack a group of fully equipped marines, I bet that the ratios of injured/killed would look similar. How on earth does that prove anything about whether the ratios are justified?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    And yet Israel offered to deliver all the things like food and wheelchairs by land if the convoys would stop trying to run the blockade. Guess the activists on those boats cared more about creating an incident than about getting that aid in there.
    Of course they wanted to create an incident, and they succeeded.

    As for Israel offering to deliver the food...then why don't they simply end the blockade? Why do they still prevent things like pasta, shampoo, coffee or chocolate to enter Gaza? That's what they should have done: check what enters Gaza but let everything enter Gaza, except weapons.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    There are civilians everywhere. Just because there are civilians there, and you know there are civilians there, doesn't mean that killing civilians is the objective of your strike. All the smart weapons in the world can't change the fact that collateral damage is inevitable in warfare.
    Collateral damage is indeed often unavoidable in 'theatre'. But, we are discussing actions carried out on a flotilla of aid ships by a so called 'boarding' party. So i take it the nature of the Israeli action has came to surface with terms such as 'strike' 'warfare' now banded round.

    Paul
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You mean a radical activist is claiming that a hated figure of authority beat him unnecessarily? He must be telling the truth, because nobody would ever lie about that!
    I'd appreciate if you would not put words in my mouth. I've never said anything of the sort. What I've actually said in terms of personal opinion is that so far I don't really believe any of the accounts from either side and that everyone is looking pretty bad in my eyes.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Of course they wanted to create an incident, and they succeeded.

    As for Israel offering to deliver the food...then why don't they simply end the blockade? Why do they still prevent things like pasta, shampoo, coffee or chocolate to enter Gaza? That's what they should have done: check what enters Gaza but let everything enter Gaza, except weapons.

    So how you going to find the weapons if you don't have things like the blockade in place? Your post makes no sense.


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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Collateral damage is indeed often unavoidable in 'theatre'. But, we are discussing actions carried out on a flotilla of aid ships by a so called 'boarding' party. So i take it the nature of the Israeli action has came to surface with terms such as 'strike' 'warfare' now banded round.

    Paul
    Yes this sort of talk has been throughout this thread from some people. That has really concerned me. We are dealing with civilians and the army is often not the best people to deal with them.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 04:28 PM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So how you going to find the weapons if you don't have things like the blockade in place? Your post makes no sense.


    j-mac
    j-mac Gaza has tunnels through to Egypt where they smuggle every day. If they wanted weapons they would use the tunnels.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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