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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I see absolutely no reason to assume this. I listened to the elderly man talking. He was very shaken but quite clear on what happened. That was on a ship where 'no violence' took place, only beatings. The other ship where there was violence may well have started because the Israeli's set off detonations to withdraw attention from the parachutes. We will have as much interest to the words of those who come out as any Israeli inquiry and we will be wanting our people back too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Update: Investigators say the lynching crowd(That were suspected as Turkish mercenaries earlier) is tied to the Global Jihad, apparently recruited and trained by the Global Jihad for that cause.
    Link would be helpful

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Update: Investigators say the lynching crowd(That were suspected as Turkish mercenaries earlier) is tied to the Global Jihad, apparently recruited and trained by the Global Jihad for that cause.
    IHH - a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Then you see no reason.
    I think that is the "ad-hominem"
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post

    They(the activists) were already wrong when they've claimed that soldiers were not attacked, that has proven to be wrong.
    That is different no one can be everywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post

    They have then claimed that Israeli soldiers came in firing.
    They came in with detonations and that to the untrained and after the event may be believed to be firing or we may yet find they did come in firing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That has proven to be wrong as well from the footage of the incident.
    No, we have not, or I certainly have not seen footage from before any soldiers were on the ship. In any case I was talking about an American OAP who was on one of the other ships. He said some of the passengers tried not to move in passive resistance and this resulted in them being beaten. His friend he says is in hospital but the Israelis he says will let no one near him. He was an old man, clearly wanting to do some good with his life, nothing more......not even a Muslim.

    We even have women missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    There is no reason to assume that they're right, and that's why there's every reason to simply wait for the facts to rise from the shadows.
    What facts? What makes an Israeli 'fact' more factual that a passengers 'fact'.

    It sounds from the guy on one of the ships with 'no violence' that the Israelis were to quick to get riled.

    I do agree that we will need to wait a bit longer till we make up our minds but we don't do that by just denying, as you did, what you do not want to hear.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    Link would be helpful
    I cannot give you a link at the moment DeeJay, I watched BBC News and BBC Scotland news on my tv.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 03:56 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So far, the only fact I see is the fact that both sides are looking like asses here and seem to have acted foolishly in some way.
    People and governments worldwide seem a bit more outraged by the killing of 10 to 20 people on an humanitarian boat than by an humanitarian convoy trying to bring food and wheelchairs to an area that is considered by most as being illegally besieged.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Your link says they are sending a boat and it looks like it will get in through Egypt. It doesn't though say anything about a Turkish Military escort. Turkey has said it will not go to war over this but that Israel must be punished.
    Aw thank yoyu I just looked throught reall fast,

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    People and governments worldwide seem a bit more outraged by the killing of 10 to 20 people on an humanitarian boat than by an humanitarian convoy trying to bring food and wheelchairs to an area that is considered by most as being illegally besieged.
    I honestly don't give much **** what people and government world wide feel about it at the moment with such little bit of information out and so much of it conflicting, nor do I think you've got any grounds to speak 24 hours after for "the world". Not surprising, many governments that in general have a history of being quick to deride Israel are deriding them while those that don't for the most part aren't, are doing so far more lightly. I'm not seeing any great break in the divide.

    There's a blockaid there, you know there's a blockaid there, you're attempting to bypass the blockaid, you are an idiot either trying to prove a point at which point you deserve what ends up coming to you or you're dong it specifically to antagonize at which point you deserve what ends up coming to you. As to who shot first or who did what first, I don't know, but I do know there's no chance in hell that the people on the ship were absolute positive angels the entire time in every way and are absolutely innocent in this...that much I know with almost complete certainty, to what extent is unknown.

    Right now, with what little facts we have out, does Israel look worse? Absolutely. But its kind of like saying the guy with **** smeered on him smells worse than the one soaked in cat urine, because one smells worse doesn't mean the other doesn't smell pretty damn bad right now either.

    However thank you for illustrating my point Bub. Every comment you make in this thread comes from the premise and the foundation that everything Israel is saying is a lie and everything the other side is saying is truth. The other side was only carrying food and wheelchairs, the blockaid is unquestionably illegal, IDF soldiers who were seriouesly outnumbered had absolutely no justification for using lethal force, etc. Every bit of your argument comes from the position that Israel is Bad and Lies and the other side is pure, innocent, and should be applauded and believed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Since you seem to agree in principle with this proportionality concept, what's your opinion on imposing a blockade in response to rocket attacks? Seems perfectly reasonable to me, but apparently I am not a very reasonable person.
    These are always fact-specific questions, but it seems like it could be reasonable to me. A lot of it depends on the status of the area being blockaded, where the blockade is located, what is being barred from entry, whether things can get in via another method, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    People and governments worldwide seem a bit more outraged by the killing of 10 to 20 people on an humanitarian boat than by an humanitarian convoy trying to bring food and wheelchairs to an area that is considered by most as being illegally besieged.
    And yet Israel offered to deliver all the things like food and wheelchairs by land if the convoys would stop trying to run the blockade. Guess the activists on those boats cared more about creating an incident than about getting that aid in there.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    ...... my problem is America.

    Indeed.


    "I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance, or joining in the confederacy of Kings to war against the principles of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson

    I think that this was right before Jefferson sent Marines to fight the Barbary Pirates wasn't it?


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