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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #631
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    No I just read your posts and your position. No mind reading necessary.
    So you're just going by assumption then eh? K.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So its a pot meet kettle moment.
    I've never completely defended Palestine nor said that they were 100% innocent. Maybe that's those assumptions that really throw off your mind reading skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Riiiight. There aren't any pro palestian anti Israeli people are there? LOL Still want to pretend you are neutral?
    There aren't as many. Try reading. I didn't say there were none. Again with your assumptions. You're not doing a great job with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    They stopped when the attacks stopped. You wanted them to go wipe out Egypt and Syria? Thats your position?
    Nope, but they can't fight as well without the tremendous support they get from us. I'd rather the whole lot of them just drop this issue once and for all. But that's not going to happen any time soon. As such, my position is that we wipe our hands of the matter. No use getting drug into some dumb conflict that seemingly never ends. We have enough of that in Iraq; don't need more.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I'll say it again real slow. You claimed Israel has said that they can do whatever they want because America will back them. I asked for a real example and the best you could do was equate behavior with a position based on personal theory.
    The bombing of civilian targets such as hotels and apartment complexes would usually contain with it international condemnation along with appropriate sanctions. Those sanctions never occur. The seizing of property of the Palestinian people and usurpation of more and more land would come with the same consequences, yet no consequences are born out. The occupation of lands, the sequestering of soldiers in houses kicking the families out, the caging in of an entire people would all normally carry with it several negative consequences. Yet the only one's realized are those which are written condemnation. There is no actual sanction or other economic/financial punishment handed down. This is in part due to American backing and our control of several of the international bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    It was a pathetic attempt to circumvent your claim. I called you on it and you ran away. Shocking.
    I ran from nothing. You've merely not presented a clear enough argument or demonstrated your own position. I've explained everything to you clearly, I can't help it if you want to stick your head in the sand.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    But they didn't. You just claimed we shouldn't get involved with a country that didn't attack us. Hypocritical debate is just a way of life for you.
    The Axis alliance did not attack us? Japan did not bomb Pearl Harbor? Is this really going to be your defense? It's pretty pathetic if so.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    No one is misrepresenting your position. You chose a side. Trying to pretend you haven't is just sad.
    I haven't pretended that I didn't choose a side. More poor assumption on your part. You should maybe stop it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #632
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    There is still the concept of proportionality, which is not yet understood by the IDF.
    Propertionality is a idiotic concept that has absoluty no place in war. That is not how wars a fought.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    So far, I have seen no news story on that issue. Hopefully, the rumors are without foundation.
    I imagine it stems from that program I gave a link to earlier where someone asked what would be Israel's response if Turkey sent another boat with Naval support. This was no way it was suggesting this would or should be done, just asking to look at the situation a little more closely. It was a Turkish boat. It was intercepted in International water and boarded by force resulting in the loss of life. As it is a Turkish boat, Turkey does have some responsibility to protect it. It was just asking for a bigger look at the picture.

    Edit: oops looks like I may be wrong if what you guys have said is correct. I would be surprised though.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-01-10 at 03:01 PM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Propertionality is a idiotic concept that has absoluty no place in war. That is not how wars a fought.
    Yeah, if you don't care about details like war crimes or international law...that's how you fight a war, indeed

  5. #635
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Propertionality is a idiotic concept that has absoluty no place in war. That is not how wars a fought.
    that is how wars are lost

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Is there any news as to what the persons on board ship have to say? Or is there still a communication shutdown...

    Paul
    I read this earlier today where returning activists from Turkey and Greece claim that the IDF was the aggressor. I believe they were on board the ship where all the violence took place and some of the others:

    Israelis opened fire before boarding Gaza flotilla, say released activists | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Not saying I believe this account, just putting it out there. So far I believe NO ONE's account, from either side. What a freaking mess this is.
    Last edited by Arcana XV; 06-01-10 at 03:12 PM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Killing 10 to 20 people and wounding 36 more while a single one is said to have stolen a pistol to an IDF soldier is very disproportionate.
    Three pistols were reportedly taken.
    And we're speaking about a crowd of dozens of people equipped with cold weapons lynching the soldiers, out-numbering them 6 to 1.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Israel has signed up to the accords if I recall correctly, that binds the state to adhere to the standards agreed: however recent history shows that Israel does not apply the conventions. The bulldozing of Palestinian homes so it could occupy territory is against the conventions but that doesn't stop Israel. BBC link

    Further, Gisha have gone through the legality or otherwise of the blockade of Gaza here in more detail than I ever could but Israel continues to do it.

    And here, you'll find the Geneva (Fourth Convention). Bulldozing Palestinian homes is against article 49 and deliberately punishing other people for crimes they did not personally commit is article 33.

    It's a good and informative read.

    **********EDIT***forgot to attach link to Fourth Convention)***EDIT**********
    The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a) the disputed terrritories are not claimed by any sovereign state, and b) the governing authorities of the disputed territories are not high contracting parties to the GC nor do they abide by any of the provisions therein. The "Palestinians" are frankly lucky that the Israelis grant them such humane treatment rather than implementing the policies of the surrounding Muslim states.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Yeah, if you don't care about details like war crimes or international law...that's how you fight a war, indeed
    So wait let me get this straight, in warfare you should count the number of rockets and bullets fired by your enemy and then fire the same amount back at them? Are you people serious?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Well watching the news. We have at least two Muslim Men missing. I suspect they are missing because they are Muslim. One of them was giving broadcasts throughout the journey, hardly the actions of a terrorist and the other a Scot (they may both have been Scot's) anyway the other managed to send photos while people were being shot. He has now disappeared. He clearly was not involved in any fighting as we could see him. Dad is frightened he will be being tortured just now. They can get no word on him.

    I also listened to a retired American from one of the boats where there was no violence. He said the Israeli's beat some who were sitting down in passive resistance. This was a very old guy, maybe 70. He said his friend is in hospital because of the beating and that they will let no one see him because he is absolutely covered in bruises. The man was very shaken.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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