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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post

    I don't think the result is clear. It all hinges on whether Israel claims the right to board ships at that distance from their coast. I believe international waters start 200 nautical miles from the coast. At 90 miles, they were in Israeli waters.
    AS I explained above.
    I disagree Completely.

    The Convoy had expressed and was just hours away from Breaching the 200 mile Limit.
    Knowing that stated intent-- one doesn't have to wait under any decent pre-emptive doctrine.

    and Second.. Israel is at/In a HOT WAR with Hamas... as we were at War with Germany in WWII. (thousands of supply ships were sunk EVERYWHERE)
    and Are at war with Osama/Taliban/Al-Qaeda and reserve the right and do hit them anywhere.
    But hey... this is whipping boy Isael and this STUNT was a set-up from the get-go.
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 07:13 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't think the result is clear. It all hinges on whether Israel claims the right to board ships at that distance from their coast. I believe international waters start 200 nautical miles from the coast. At 90 miles, they were in Israeli waters.
    Been looking this up since I was unsure. By the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, territorial waters are 12 nautical miles from a countries baseland(don't ask, it's complicated, but roughly 12 NM from shore usually). The not surprising complication is that Israel is not a signatory of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. So what you have is a kinda legal limbo.

    Edit: According to wiki, Israel claims 12 NM for Territorial Sea. Take that for what it is worth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territo...ial_sea_claims
    Last edited by Redress; 05-31-10 at 07:03 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post

    No, I am not embarrassed. It is clear to any one reading my post I referred to your use of the term.
    No, Your Being at best Disingenuous... but as I said, just posting for ego now.
    You "quoted" the term thusly and added that's why "we Have Law"// INTERNATIONAL LAW.
    This little Weasling job doesn't get you out of your Blunder/LIE.
    YOU said there was an important thing called [International Waters] And .... "Law" in reference to IT.

    I have even said that I thought the flotilla "was probably looking for a confrontation".
    Now Backpedalling.
    Funny that. By the way, what would you call landing an armed force on a boat?
    "Boarding" that was fully expected... But I already told you that in the last post.
    Want to DISINGENUOUSLY ask yet again?


    I have not had to retract a single thing I said.
    That's a 100% Lie.. again.
    You cited/quoted the ["International waters"] and added "Law" referring to that phrase and why "we have" it. (LAW On International Waters)
    You Keep LYING about what You said.
    This is unacceptable.

    EDIT
    I'm now DONE OUTING your tactics/LIES here Redress.
    Last-word/Wiggle away.
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 07:16 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't think the result is clear. It all hinges on whether Israel claims the right to board ships at that distance from their coast. I believe international waters start 200 nautical miles from the coast. At 90 miles, they were in Israeli waters.
    200 nautical miles is an economic zone, the actual nautical territory is for 22 KM off the coast, and there is a contugous zone for another 22 KM, so the convoy was still 20 KM outside of Iraeli juridiction to prevent it landing.


    Territorial waters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    but Israel has not signed the treaty for those definitions of territory.
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    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Been looking this up since I was unsure. By the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, territorial waters are 12 nautical miles from a countries baseland(don't ask, it's complicated, but roughly 12 NM from shore usually).
    It is complicated. According to UNCLOS III...

    Territorial Waters - 12 nautical miles - This is considered sovereign territory.

    Contiguous Zone - An additional 12 nautical miles - A state could continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: pollution, taxation, customs, and immigration.

    Exclusive Economic Zones - 200 nautical miles from the coastline. Refers to fishing rights, oil rights, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The not surprising complication is that Israel is not a signatory of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. So what you have is a kinda legal limbo.
    The US government signed the UNCLOS III treaty, but Congress has never ratified it. There are eight nations which claim territorial water rights of 200 NM.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    It is complicated. According to UNCLOS III...

    Territorial Waters - 12 nautical miles - This is considered sovereign territory.

    Contiguous Zone - An additional 12 nautical miles - A state could continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: pollution, taxation, customs, and immigration.

    Exclusive Economic Zones - 200 nautical miles from the coastline. Refers to fishing rights, oil rights, etc.
    For Contiguous Zones, the country has to claim it. Since Israel is not a signatory, they never have claimed it and are listed as having no claim.

    The US government signed the UNCLOS III treaty, but Congress has never ratified it. There are eight nations which claim territorial water rights of 200 NM.
    I knew that the US had never ratified it, despite helping design and negotiate the treaty. What are the 8 countries with the 200 mile claim?

    Edit, never mind: the countries are Benin, Republic of the Congo, Ecuador, El Salvador, Liberia, Peru, Somalia
    Last edited by Redress; 05-31-10 at 07:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    AS I explained above.
    I disagree Completely.

    The Convoy had expressed and was just hours away from Breaching the 200 mile Limit.
    Knowing that stated intent-- one doesn't have to wait under any decent pre-emptive doctrine.

    and Second.. Israel is at/In a HOT WAR with Hamas... as we were at War with Germany in WWII. (thousands of supply ships were sunk EVERYWHERE)
    and Are at war with Osama/Taliban/Al-Qaeda and reserve the right and do hit them anywhere.
    But hey... this is whipping boy Isael and this STUNT was a set-up from the get-go.
    -
    Ok, I agree with you here.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    While I'm awaiting more details on the circumstances of the clash that took place on one of the ships. Were the soldiers attacked, they would be entitled to use such force as necessary to address the issue. That does not mean license to use unlimited or excessive force. The facts would need to be analyzed to assess whether the amount of force used was appropriate given the circumstances or excessive. That is has been reported that a soldier's weapon had been seized and the individual fired on the soldiers indicates, assuming the report is accurate, that a level of force was necessary.

    On the matter of a ship's presence in international waters, unless the ships were flagged with a sovereign state's flag, they did not enjoy immunity in international wates. Moreover, even as Israel is not a signatory to the Law of the Sea Convention, that Convention also highlights general principles concerning the boarding, among other things, of ships in international waters. Such principles have been drawn and adapted from earlier conventions e.g., the Hague Conventions.

    In general:

    The following ships enjoy immunity in international waters: (1) warships (article 95) and (2) Ships owned or operated by a State and used only on government non-commercial service (article 96). Of course, if the warship is used for purposes of piracy, it is no longer immune (article 102). All other ships can be "visited." (article 110)

    The flotilla was not comprised of warships nor ships owned/operated by a state government used only on government non-commercial service. It was not immune from boarding.

    Also from the San Remo Manual, neutral merchant vessels are subject to attack if they "are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture" (clause 67). Neutral waters constitute the waters within jurisdiction of neutral states, not international waters (clause 14).
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 05-31-10 at 07:28 PM.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    For me there looks to be no justification for Israeli Commandos to board the ship, lets alone whilst in International waters.
    Trying to justify whether the appropriate level of force was used is immaterial because of this point. The very fact that Israeli troops were fighting against 'persons with knifes/bars and a ceased weapon does in NO way suggest those on board were expecting, or preparing for, some kind of battle. If they were indeed ready for a fight i,m sure the protesters would have been appropriately armed.
    Also, another PR disaster by the Israeli Government.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Who the Hell cares about this "Intl Waters" BS.
    They were heading by admission/For Provocation to run a Military blockade.
    Knowing that intent... It's like, ergo, [pre] 'Hot Pursuit' which loses protections of boundaries.
    They said they were unarmed and nonviolent.

    And As I said:


    Deaths are on the hands of those who ran this STUNT and resisted boarding that was fully expected.

    Tho it is another PR 'Triumph' to be used precisely like this (indignation about those 'pirate' Israelis/bloodthirsty/do anything/Zionist Jews) by people Like you.
    -
    I,m not convinced 'boarding' and 'storming' are the same act...

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