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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, you said that it doesn't collectively punish the Palestinian people. I said by definition of what a blockade is, it most certainly does collectively punish the Palestinian people. Stay on target.
    I don't even have to point out towards the absurdness of that statement.
    Simply ask yourself why would they have to use the word "illegal" on a blockade if all blockades were illegal.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    It is not. Please see IC and Don's exchange of views, I don't think it would be helpful for us to repeat the discussion. Needless to say, I agree with IC.
    I go with Don's interpretation.


    Those might both be the opinions of the Israeli government and a few of their staunchest allies in the US, but the level of condemnation from all around the World suggests that international opinion does not concur, as indeed, neither does the UN.
    This does not change the fact that it is legitimate.

    Not in international waters, using lethal force and taking citizens of other soverieign states hostage. Israel has once again gone too far and used disproportionate violence. They are now reaping the diplomatic consequences of their actions.
    Nope.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I don't even have to point out towards the absurdness of that statement.
    Simply ask yourself why would they have to use the word "illegal" on a blockade if all blockades were illegal.
    Quit trying to deflect. You said that the blockade does not collectively punish the Palestinian people. I have demonstrated that statement to be false by the precise nature of a blockade. But maybe you can make another deflect statement that has nothing to do with what we're discussing so Texmaster there has another post to thank.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There could be no other intent. Because you know the civilians are in there. So when you fire those rockets, you do so full well knowing that you are attacking and killing innocent civilians.
    I can't see your point.
    When the US army/NATO/Israel/etc cause civilians deaths it's usually because they didn't know that civilians are there.
    Like that time when NATO has dropped bombs on some fuel tanks hijacked by terrorists not knowing that civilians came there to gather fuel, killing over 45 civilians.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And there are times when the Palestinian people are doing just that. I didn't however claim that Israel is the "source of the world's evil and legitimize the murdering of its civilians"
    In this thread when you first used the term "fighting back" you have referred to the launching of rockets by Hamas.

    I don't think you get it but this means you're legitimizing those actions.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    They've also had two assault rifles.
    I think only cowards use the cover of peace activists to attack soldiers that do not fire back, and I think it's ****ing brave not to draw your weapon out and shoot when you're at the danger of life if only because of your values.
    You probably ought to be able to corroborate your claim that the activists had assault rifles, right? Where are you getting that piece of information? I haven't heard, read or seen any such evidence. Perhaps you have access to information that ordinary DP members don't. But, had they had assault rifles, how come no Israeli soldier (according to an Israeli spokeman I heard 4 hours ago on the radio) suffered gunshot wounds? How come the only ones to have shot anyone were the soldiers?
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Quit trying to deflect. You said that the blockade does not collectively punish the Palestinian people. I have demonstrated that statement to be false by the precise nature of a blockade. But maybe you can make another deflect statement that has nothing to do with what we're discussing so Texmaster there has another post to thank.
    Which is why it is clear that you're objecting to blockades in general and claiming that all of them are the collective punishment of the blockaded territory's residents.
    I have only point out at the absurdity of that statement.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Quit trying to deflect. You said that the blockade does not collectively punish the Palestinian people. I have demonstrated that statement to be false by the precise nature of a blockade. But maybe you can make another deflect statement that has nothing to do with what we're discussing so Texmaster there has another post to thank.
    When the Palestinians stop electing terrorist organizations to their government power you will see a change in Israel.

    What is so pathetic is you can't even acknowledge Hamas' role in terrorism against Israeli civilians being at the heart for the blockade in the first place.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I can't see your point.
    When the US army/NATO/Israel/etc cause civilians deaths it's usually because they didn't know that civilians are there.
    Like that time when NATO has dropped bombs on some fuel tanks hijacked by terrorists not knowing that civilians came there to gather fuel, killing over 45 civilians.
    OK, fair enough. There are some times. But I don't think many. Certainly, you know the apartment complex is occupied. When you bomb a place like that, you do so full well knowing that there are civilians there and that they'll die. You're doing it either to create civilian loss (as was the case in WW II in Tokyo), or because you have completely negated the lives of those civilians and think of them not so much as people, but things which are in the way of the current goal and thus it's ok to destroy them so long as you're maintaining this "intent" of the original goal.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    When the Palestinians stop electing terrorist organizations and their government power you will see a change in Israel.
    I won't hold my breath. I don't think even that would cause a change in Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What is so pathetic is you can't even acknolwedge Hamas' role in terroristm against Israeli civilians being at the heart for the blockade in the first place.
    What's pathetic is you can't even acknowledge the Israeli role in the conditions and environment of the Palestinian people and their oppression over decades which has grown deeply rooted resent.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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