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So you support the Israelis, then.
Yeah he kinda did just support the Israeli side. :lol:
So you support the Israelis, then.
They've attacked soldiers before soldiers have attacked them, hence no self defense, and defintley not self defense against lethal force (painball anyone?).
You're a walking beacon of irrationality and your arguments do not fit the standards of human logic.
You are correct, win, lose or draw the flotilla was a complete PR success in their favor. That said, it appears that the world community insist on international laws have been violated but, I would be curious if any Maritime laws have been violated on behalf of the Flotilla.I'd have to say that, despite all of the problems that the Flotilla activists have encountered, this event is a massive success.
They've attacked soldiers before soldiers have attacked them, hence no self defense, and defintley not self defense against lethal force (painball anyone?).
You're a walking beacon of irrationality and your arguments do not fit the standards of human logic.
You are correct, win, lose or draw the flotilla was a complete PR success in their favor. That said, it appears that the world community insist on international laws have been violated but, I would be curious if any Maritime laws have been violated on behalf of the Flotilla.
Q&A: What happened in the Gaza flotilla seizure, what's ahead? | ReutersWAS THE INTERCEPTION, IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, LEGAL?
The Israeli navy said the flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels said they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters. Under the law of blockade, a nation has the right to intercept a vessel in international waters so long as it is deemed to be bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say.
Did the commandos ask, "Permission to come aboard Captain?"
This inversion of the truth so many propagandists are offering is downright obscene.
This accusation can be a two way street, video's speak volumes and a lack of video assumes volumes.This inversion of the truth so many propagandists are offering is downright obscene.
Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal? | ReutersCAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?
Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.
"If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.
Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.
Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.
"But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response," Kraska said.
The use of force may also have other repercussions.
"While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.
"However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."
I thought this was more in line with BP's profile?What's obscene is the denial of passage of building materials to allow the Gazans to rebuild their homes. Proof positive that the Israelis are clearly anti-cementic*!
*thanks to Jeremy Hardy
Just thought we should take the ire down a notch or two
Here's from Reuters agency:
Q&A: What happened in the Gaza flotilla seizure, what's ahead? | Reuters
Yes I do understand the rules of Blockades, but in regards to the Flotilla and possible Maritime laws violated on their behalf, such as aggressive behavior towards other ships at sea, injuries to their passengers, flying a false flag, possible smuggling and a whole myriad of other possible violations. I am not by any stretch of the imagination a sea lawyer but, just curious.Here's from Reuters agency:
Q&A: What happened in the Gaza flotilla seizure, what's ahead? | Reuters
Well, my husband is a seaman. If the commandos did not follow peaceful procedures, by definition the boarding was not peaceful. The Turks on board the ship were not peaceful either but they were behaving violently defensive. To suggest that the armed, trained Commandos were innocent victims is illogical. The only question is how the Mossad or the I.D.F. could be so incompetent/unprepared- dropping these Commandos one by one in a hostile environment and expectthere would be no bloodshed?!
Yes I do understand the rules of Blockades, but in regards to the Flotilla and possible Maritime laws violated on their behalf, such as aggressive behavior towards other ships at sea, injuries to their passengers, flying a false flag, possible smuggling and a whole myriad of other possible violations. I am not by any stretch of the imagination a sea lawyer but, just curious.
absolutelyAre you speaking about possible violations from the Flotila and its crews?
In regards to maritime laws, I believe the ships in question must fly the flag in which country it is registered and must comply to all the laws of the sea, up to and including a legal blockade. The crews of the ships in question would be ultimately be responsible for it's crew and passengers. To sail deliberately into a hostile situation and as a result deaths occur aboard this ships , would be the responsibility of the Captain and owners of these vessels. Smuggling is also taken very seriously and I believe can be considered as a hostile or even a wartime ship. Then again I could be completely wrong on this but, if I was Israel I would have all the Maritime lawyers working on this and if in fact this was the case I would bring suit to the countries and owners and captains of these vessels.
It is a illegel blockade,. so they sould break it
Cengiz Alquyz, 42
Four gunshot wounds: back of head, right side of face, back, left leg
Ibrahim Bilgen, 60
Four gunshot wounds: right chest, back, right hip, right temple
Cegdet Kiliclar, 38
One gunshot wound: middle of forehead
Furkan Dogan, 19
Five gunshot wounds: nose, back, back of head, left leg, left ankle
Sahri Yaldiz
Four gunshot wounds: left chest, left leg, right leg twice
Aliheyder Bengi, 39
Six gunshot wounds: left chest, belly, right arm, right leg, left hand twice
Cetin Topcuoglu, 54
Three gunshot wounds: back of head, left side, right belly
Cengiz Songur, 47
One gunshot wound: front of neck
Necdet Yildirim, 32
Two gunshot wounds: right shoulder, left back
I don't think they were trying to get anyone killed.
Like any act of non-violent disobedience...
...the goal is to expose your enemy's violent/oppressive nature and to draw as much attention to that as possible in order to discredit their false legitimacy.
Considering the amount of attention this has gotten and the international outcry to Israel's actions, this is a massive success.
What you also may not wish to take as a possibility, is that they might as well have been shot by their buddies while they were attempting to hit the IDF.Some of them were shot in the back of the head, and back there is no honor in shooting someone in the back of the head, or in the back while they are running away. This simple act means this person is a coward who doesn't want to face his enemy while shooting them, and any one who condones this are people with no honor themselves. Their is alway such a thing like over kill, since one shot in the head is good enough too kill them. This simple was an act of murder by someone with a gun, and so far the ones with a gun were the IDF thought I also read that the people took some guns from the IDF people on board the ship, but do we know if they had been shot off as well?
Some of them were shot in the back of the head, and back there is no honor in shooting someone in the back of the head, or in the back while they are running away. This simple act means this person is a coward who doesn't want to face his enemy while shooting them, and any one who condones this are people with no honor themselves. Their is alway such a thing like over kill, since one shot in the head is good enough too kill them. This simple was an act of murder by someone with a gun, and so far the ones with a gun were the IDF thought I also read that the people took some guns from the IDF people on board the ship, but do we know if they had been shot off as well?
This report can be found here by the Garudian
Of the nine people believed to have died, four are known to be Turkish. Two have been identified, while authorities are trying to confirm the identity of the others. One was named locally as Muharrem Kocak, an IHH volunteer. The nationalities of the remaining dead have not been confirmed.
Yesterday the wife of one of the men, Ali Haydar Bengi, said he “constantly prayed to become a martyr”. Mr Bengi, 39, who had four children, had studied at al-Azhar University in Cairo, a leading seat of Islamic learning.
“Before embarking on the journey, he said he desired to become a martyr,” his friend, Sabir Ceylan, said.
Gaza flotilla attack: Turkish activists killed in raid 'wanted to be martyrs' - Telegraph
So this as been updated, I already had a gut feeling of this, just didn't want to post it.All 9 were identified as Turkish, one of them a Turkish person with an American citizenship.