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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #491
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Deemed by whom? Hamas? The UN? Both have an agenda.
    Amnesty International, Geneva Conventions - Switzerland has complained, the UN etc. Obviously as none of these are American, I don't believe you will accept they have no agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    -- Do you have a source for that? Because according to Israel, members could have escorted their contents into Gaza to make sure they arrived.
    Source BBC

    Source Gisha (Israeli Human Rights Group)

    One of many articles at the BBC that quotes the UN on the amount of aid allowed in

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    -- And why do you suppose that Egypt, a Muslim country as well upholds a blockade with Israel?
    After Monday's incident, Egypt has just opened the border to Gaza. Before that, I'd speculate that there was a lot of US pressure to support Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    -- That is always possible, but in a case where repeated attempts, and offers of peace have repeatedly been shunned by the Palestinians, and cease fires are shattered by rocket fire into populated civilian areas, then at some point an over reaction or two is inevitable.

    j-mac
    Yes, but that "over reaction" by restricting the amount of food going into Israel shouldn't last 3 years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I don't know about Don, but I'm sure never surprised by the dogmatic views of Europeans who aren't sharp enough to figure out the fallacies of the appeal to authority and the appeal to popularity, myself.
    Nothing intelligent to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    -- My objections concern a rush to judgment--condemnation in this case--before the facts are clear and an investigation has been carried out. Issuing a condemnation, which is tantamount to a finding of guilt
    It's a condemnation of uneccesary deaths - both sides played a part in this. Not just protestors but Israelis too by reacting to the flotilla by boarding in international waters.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    -- More specifically, I have no objections to releasing the ships and most of the crew. –snip-- Those who engaged in violence should be prosecuted.
    I agree that those who engaged in violence should be prosecuted but are you doing what you accuse the UN statement of doing and making a premeditated judgement that the Israelis have no guilt here?

  2. #492
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Those responsible for violence should be prosecuted.
    Including the IDF officiers who planned this raid

  3. #493
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Link
    BBC News - Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote(The Palestinian movement Hamas says the Israeli navy has intercepted a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip.

    Flotilla organisers say 30 people on board were hurt in clashes with Israeli forces. Israel has made no comment.

    The reported interception took place in international waters, more than 150km (90 miles) off the coast of Gaza. )

    I can well believe that people were hurt, Hamas claims the interception was in International waters, be interesting to hear where Israel claims the interception took place.

    If a country has a blackade against another country then it is ****ing stupid to try to pass through that blockade. Of course I am sure that fact will get ignored by that Isreali bashers just like any other time Israel defends itself or retaliates for some attack by one of its neighbors. I don't blame Israel for not trusting any boat going to the Palestinians,how many terrorist attacks did the Palestinians do against Israel.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 06-01-10 at 10:40 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    If people want to ignore me because this is slightly lazy on my part, be my guest. However was on a mini-vacation for 4 days and missed a lot of posts and saw this and am immedietely interested. I don't like making any kind of massive judgement until most of the facts are pretty much laid out there, and even an initial one I want to get a general idea. However this is a good 500 pages long already with much of it concerning discussions mostly back and forth between a few people. Anyone mind giving a little sum up of what is known thus far and what the opposition and support are generally saying?

    My mind always boggles with the Israel stuff as its so amazingly nuanced and so passionate on every side, its hard to get a good grip on it.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You do realize that this argument would mean that they aren't bound by anything and can do as they please, right?
    I was just pointing out that references to the UNCLOS may not be relevant here as Israel is a non-signatory. If it can be shown that they have accepted relevant provisions as customary international law since it was enacted and ratified by other states, then it would be relevant to relate it to Israel. Furthermore, Turkey, the biggest complaintant at this point, is ALSO a non-signatory.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    But all the experts say the contrary...
    Israel's inspecting boats in international waters is not illegal nor is it without precedent. For example, the BBC reported:

    A massive cocaine seizure by the Royal Navy off the Nicaraguan coast has dealt a "sledgehammer blow" to traffickers, the defence secretary said.

    HMS Cumberland seized two tonnes of cocaine worth £200m after intercepting a speedboat during a routine patrol.


    The caption under the photo accompanying the story clearly notes, "HMS Cumberland intercepted the speedboat in international waters."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I agree that those who engaged in violence should be prosecuted but are you doing what you accuse the UN statement of doing and making a premeditated judgement that the Israelis have no guilt here?
    No, but perhaps you didn't see my initial post in this thread (Message #58). I stated:

    Were the soldiers attacked, they would be entitled to use such force as necessary to address the issue. That does not mean license to use unlimited or excessive force. The facts would need to be analyzed to assess whether the amount of force used was appropriate given the circumstances or excessive.

    In short, there are constraints that would need to be respected under the Laws of War.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post

    Nothing intelligent to add?



    I'm not the condescending teenager who is offering up the fallacies here.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Israel's inspecting boats in international waters is not illegal nor is it without precedent. For example, the BBC reported:

    A massive cocaine seizure by the Royal Navy off the Nicaraguan coast has dealt a "sledgehammer blow" to traffickers, the defence secretary said.

    HMS Cumberland seized two tonnes of cocaine worth £200m after intercepting a speedboat during a routine patrol.


    The caption under the photo accompanying the story clearly notes, "HMS Cumberland intercepted the speedboat in international waters."
    Why are they all saying that it is illegal then?

    I think there is a difference between boarding a boat of drug smugglers, and boarding an humanitarian convoy bound to an illegally besieged territory.
    Last edited by bub; 06-01-10 at 11:04 AM.

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