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Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

rhinefire said:
Where was this outrage after the North Koreans committed an act of war on the South Korean vessel? God bless Isreal
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em, let me think, there were not some of our civilians on board:doh
 
The consequences of the attack on the flotilla seem to be extending way, way beyond the "usual suspects", i.e. the countries, parties and organisations that are normally critical of Israeli policy towards Gaza in particular and the Palestinians in general. Here you'll see that the attitudes of one of Israel's staunchest allies in British politics has been radically changed by Monday night's incident...

William Hague condemns Israel's "unacceptable" blockade of Gaza in wake of flotilla deaths - thetorydiary

William Hague is the current UK Foreign Secretary and long-time member of Conservative Friends of Israel. Witness his wholehearted affiliation with the Israeli cause prior to this week...

TotallyJewish.com | News | National

An extract, if you don't feel like reading it all...

"I understand the country's strategic fragility. Thanks to Conservative Friends Of Israel I've travelled across the country. I've stood on the Golan Heights and swam in the Sea of Galilee. I've stood on the part of the West Bank where you can see the Mediterranean, where you really understand Israel's strategic fragility. But we are candid friends, which means we don't always agree."

How many more friends and allies are Bibi, Ayalon and their cohorts prepared to kick in the face?
 
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Apocalypse said:
So the UN says.
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Ah yes, that troublesome little body that neither US citizens or Israel likes - so it must be always in the wrong.

Apocalypse said:
Anyway if we are to stay on-topic I must point towards the fact that the shipment was carrying about two thirds of what Israel brings into Gaza every week.
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Which... is... still.... less.... than.... the.... Gazans.... need... every.... week....

NolaMan said:
As I posted earlier, (post #771) apparently these "humanitarian" vessels were carrying a cache of bulletproof vests, night-vision goggles as well as gas masks. A group of 50 passengers with possible terror connections have refused to identify themselves and were not carrying passports. Many of them were however carrying envelopes packed with thousands of dollars in cash.

Frankly, this is just SOP for groups like this. Under the guise of "humanitarianism", they attempt to sneak it things that could only really be used for warlike purposes --
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Uhm.. "warlike" purposes would be rockets, bombs, guns, biological weapons etc. I'll accept that gasmasks and bullet proof vests are useful - too bad the 9 dead weren't wearing them eh?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Ah yes, that troublesome little body that neither US citizens or Israel likes - so it must be always in the wrong.
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You mean neither nor.
The correct term is neither nor.
Which... is... still.... less.... than.... the.... Gazans.... need... every.... week....
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So the UN says. Israel rejects that, saying that there is no humanitarian crisis in the strip.
Uhm.. "warlike" purposes would be rockets, bombs, guns, biological weapons etc. I'll accept that gasmasks and bullet proof vests are useful - too bad the 9 dead weren't wearing them eh?
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They were.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Uhm.. "warlike" purposes would be rockets, bombs, guns, biological weapons etc. I'll accept that gasmasks and bullet proof vests are useful - too bad the 9 dead weren't wearing them eh?
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I think we can agree however (should this story prove to be true) that there was more going on with these ships than simply a "humanitarian" mission.
 
'Hamas blocking delivery of aid'

Security forces say working to transfer humanitarian equipment from Gaza flotilla into Strip, but difficulties, obstacles placed by Hamas has so far prevented goods' delivery

Amnon Meranda
Published: 06.02.10, 18:35 / Israel News

Hamas is blocking the delivery of the humanitarian aid that arrived on the Gaza flotilla, defense establishment sources said on Wednesday. Hamas has yet to respond to the claims.

Security sources told Ynet that elements from the Defense Ministry's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories unit (COGAT) have been in contact with bodies from the international community and the Palestinian Authority, in order to ensure that the humanitarian equipment enters the Strip

However, the sources said, they have been unsuccessful, due to difficulties and obstacles placed by Hamas.

According to the security sources, despite Hamas' objection, the unloading of the goods at Ashdod Port continues. Port workers and Defense Ministry elements have been working to unload the cargo since the ships docked on Monday, and Tuesday night, eight trucks containing medical equipment, toys, clothing and medicine arrived at the Kerem Shalom crossing.
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'Hamas blocking delivery of aid' - Israel News, Ynetnews

Hamas doesn't like wheelchairs. You just can't make good rockets out of them.
 
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BBC News - Gaza flotilla - Eyewitness accounts of Israeli raid

Eye Witness accounts

BBC News - Q&A: Israeli raid on aid flotilla

Q&A on Raid

BBC News - Israeli convoy raid: What went wrong?

Raid – what went wrong?

BBC News - Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Witnesses cast doubts

Apocalypse said:
-- There is a 100% certainity that the soldiers didn't come there with a deadly intent
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That, I'll agree with. Apparently there's inquiry in Israel about why this particular unit went in and botched the job.

There is widespread agreement in Israel and around the world that, whatever the rights or wrongs about the Gaza flotilla, something went badly wrong with the operation to stop it.

One commentator in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz remarked that "my six-year-old son could do much better than our current government."
--snip--

Five of the six ships in the flotilla did stop, but the main one, the Mavi Marmara, did not.

(Update: several readers have pointed out that the protesters, as well as the UN high commissioner for human rights, consider the whole blockade illegal and that therefore, in their view, the Israeli argument becomes irrelevant.)

'Unexpected'

Warnings having predictably failed, Israel decided to use force.

It did so using members of its seaborne special forces, Flotilla 13, with helicopters and speed boats.

There has been debate within Israel as to whether this was the right unit to use. It is trained for combat, not crowd control --snip--

Q&A: What went wrong?
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Apocalypse said:
-- On all of the other ships there were zero casualties
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Not entirely true – there have been witness accounts saying that there were beatings and electric shock treatment (probably Tazers) on the other ships.

Activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni, was among six Greeks who returned home on Tuesday.
"Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat," he said.
"They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used."
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You REALLY dont see the 'Young Turks" commentary as being biased? Reeeeeally???

OK...well...first off...

1-We board vessels ALL THE TIME checking for drugs, human trafficking...etc
2-The vessels werent out for a cruise...they were out with intent to run an established blockade. Why the blockade? Because terrorists have been getting guns and weapons by such means (and BTW...lets not ignore the fact that the Egyptians ALSO have a blockade in place because THEY know whats up).
3-There was no effort by the vessels to get inspections...either by the UN or the Egyptians to verify that their cargo was of humantiarian nature.

And of course the gratuitous use of the term 'right wingers'...thats not at ALL a giveaway...
 
Infinite Chaos said:
That, I'll agree with. Apparently there's inquiry in Israel about why this particular unit went in and botched the job.
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Israelis want to know why the soldiers weren't equipped with assault rifles and how come they haven't dropped smoke bombs when dropping the soldiers on the ship.
Not entirely true – there have been witness accounts saying that there were beatings and electric shock treatment (probably Tazers) on the other ships.
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This just proves to me that you do not question anything that is being said by the activists, since you've just referred to the account of one of those extremists as a fact.

An advice to you would be that they were already caught on two lies.
 
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Apocalypse said:
'Hamas blocking delivery of aid' - Israel News, Ynetnews

Hamas doesn't like wheelchairs. You just can't make good rockets out of them.
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I've already posted this - in response to Alexa. Hamas controls the tunnels and thus they too are exerting collective punishment on ordinary Gazans. If you checked the link I posted - there's even a cow being lowered into a tunnel, probably for some Hamas official to enjoy his T-bone steak...


Apocalypse said:
You mean neither nor.
The correct term is neither nor.
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Didn't take you for a "Grammar Nazi!"

Apocalypse said:
So the UN says. Israel rejects that, saying that there is no humanitarian crisis in the strip.
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I'm still waiting for you to disprove all the Gishi statements you asked for yesterday - statements apparently put forward in court to make the Israeli Govt finally release details of what they allowed and what is banned. Till then, I'll ignore your "Israel says, so it must be true" stance.

Apocalypse said:
They were.
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Link? Source?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I've already posted this - in response to Alexa. Hamas controls the tunnels and thus they too are exerting collective punishment on ordinary Gazans. If you checked the link I posted - there's even a cow being lowered into a tunnel, probably for some Hamas official to enjoy his T-bone steak...
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There are goats.
Didn't take you for a "Grammar Nazi!"
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I have my moods.
I'm still waiting for you to disprove all the Gishi statements you asked for yesterday - statements apparently put forward in court to make the Israeli Govt finally release details of what they allowed and what is banned. Till then, I'll ignore your "Israel says, so it must be true" stance.
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I believe it was Gisha though I won't hold you accountable since they are a very small organization.
I honestly couldn't find the link.
Link? Source?
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Watch the videos.
They are seen wearing gas masks, even in the al-Jazeera video.
 
CrazyMcCool said:
Perhaps its time the people of gaza try and stand up..I bet you they outnumber Hamas and would get support form Israel..

Directed @ Infinite Chaos :)
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That was after all the reason for invading last year, was it not. An invasion in which one third of the deaths were children and which I understand increased Hamas's popularity
 
Apocalypse said:
There are goats.
I have my moods.
I believe it was Gisha though I won't hold you accountable since they are a very small organization.
I honestly couldn't find the link.
Watch the videos.
They are seen wearing gas masks, even in the al-Jazeera video.
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Dont forget the thousnds of dollars each of them had on their person not to mention their links to terrorist organizations.
 
Zyphlin said:
The people on the ship that is at the heart of this are either Morons who didn't realize they'd get stopped or shot at if they attempting to break the blockaid or attack the soldiers; or their Douches who knew full well that's what would happen and did it specifically to cause an international incident and to make Israel look bad by putting them in a no-win situation.
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Any reasonably competent analysis yields the correct scenario/motive. Their crucial mistake is that they neglected to factor-in the video capabilities of the IDF (UAVs/helicopters/ships).
 
VanceMack said:
2-The vessels werent out for a cruise...they were out with intent to run an established blockade. Why the blockade? Because terrorists have been getting guns and weapons by such means (and BTW...lets not ignore the fact that the Egyptians ALSO have a blockade in place because THEY know whats up).
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You know fine and well that as there are tunnels used all the time between Gaza and Egypt that if they wanted to smuggle weapons in they would do it that way rather than try to do it on a ship which had been searched repeadly.

WitnessGAZA - Join us live as a witness in Gaza
 
alexa said:
You know fine and well that as there are tunnels used all the time between Gaza and Egypt that if they wanted to smuggle weapons in they would do it that way rather than try to do it on a ship which had been searched repeadly.

WitnessGAZA - Join us live as a witness in Gaza
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So you are claiming they never use boats to bring in weapons? I ask this before I embarass you with a link direct to that method.
 
Tashah said:
Any reasonably competent analysis yields the correct scenario/motive. Their crucial mistake is that they neglected to factor-in the video capabilities of the IDF (UAVs/helicopters/ships).
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What do you think about their motive?

Do you agree that they deliberately wanted to create an incident so that the public opinion worldwide gets focused on the siege of Gaza?
 
Moderator's Warning:
One more Warning. Stay on topic. If you want to discuss other I/P issues, do it in the ME forum.
 
texmaster said:
So you are claiming they never use boats to bring in weapons? I ask this before I embarass you with a link direct to that method.
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I said that they can get weapons in through the tunnels from Egypt any time the want and that the boats used by Free Gaza had been inspected for weapons several times. I also gave a link where you will hear one of the Free Gaza people explaining that. That is all I said.
 
alexa said:
That was after all the reason for invading last year, was it not. An invasion in which one third of the deaths were children and which I understand increased Hamas's popularity
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Yeah we just installed new Childern seeking missles...But shh dont tell anyone its a secret that the Jewish War mechine is infact killing childern for a sport...

Now to actually adress that remark :p
When you have the enemy hiding in buildings...Yeah I am not going to derail this thread ;)
 
alexa said:
You know fine and well that as there are tunnels used all the time between Gaza and Egypt that if they wanted to smuggle weapons in they would do it that way rather than try to do it on a ship which had been searched repeadly.

WitnessGAZA - Join us live as a witness in Gaza
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You REALLY want to cling to the notion that this was just a humanitarian trip and NOT a political stunt...you know...like the one underway NOW? Seriously...you cant be that stupid.
 
VanceMack said:
You REALLY want to cling to the notion that this was just a humanitarian trip and NOT a political stunt...you know...like the one underway NOW? Seriously...you cant be that stupid.
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It is both Humanitarian aid and politically motivated. Both were always made obvious. There are more boats coming so it isn't over yet. Two more from Turkey and one from Ireland.

What I have noticed is that this thread for the past ten pages or so has disintegrated into personal attacks, your's being just one.
 
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