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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    It has been called illegal by just about everyone.
    Doesn't answer the question.

    The reason for the blockade is political.
    No it's based on security.

    It is because the people of Gaza voted in Hamas. The blockade on Gaza is a collective punishment on all the people of Gaza for this.
    No the blockade on Gaza is a result of the governing authority of Gaza waging an indiscriminate campaign of murder against Israeli civilians. It is not punishment it is a security measure to prevent Hamas from obtaining the necessary supplies for continuing their warcrimes.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    International law is built upon treaties. Signing the appropriate treaty binds the signator by certain conditions and assures them certain rights, protections, or authority.

    That's how international law works.

    If you can't accept that, there's nothing more to talk about.

    Sure, but if you are not a signatory but still abide by the laws.... no harm, no foul.

    Face it, you don’t have a leg to stand on except your hatred of Israel…. Noted.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Sure, but if you are not a signatory but still abide by the laws.... no harm, no foul.

    Face it, you don’t have a leg to stand on except your hatred of Israel…. Noted.
    Oh nice trump card Crunch... Don't actually refute what he says but call him a hater of Israel, even if they did something wrong... wow. What an argument.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Sure, but if you are not a signatory but still abide by the laws...
    The point is you get the power to do certain things when you sign the document, which binds you to behaving in a certain manner.

    If you don't sign the document, then your authority in international waters and that of the Somalian pirates is exactly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Face it, you don’t have a leg to stand on except your hatred of Israel…. Noted.
    I don't hate Israel, I disagree with their actions.

    Not that that matters, it's never stopped you from making baseless accusations before.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    You're the one who seems to have trouble grasping international law. Forcefully boarding any ship in international waters is piracy. Forcefully boarding a humanitarian ship is even worse.

    Israel's defense is that the ship had intent to break its blockade around Gaza. There are many things wrong with this defense, because:
    - the blockade is illegal. Israel refuses to play the part of Occupying Power despite it's effective control on everything that goes in and out of Gaza.
    - the ship was not a merchant vessel, which is the only type of vessel that can be boarded if its intent is to break a legal blockade.

    Come back when you actually took some political science and international law classes and not simply restate what you heard on FoxNews.
    More crap..... those ships had stated they were going to run a legal blockade. By international law that gave Israel the right to stop the ships and board them..... see the the san remo memorandum.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    More crap..... those ships had stated they were going to run a legal blockade. By international law that gave Israel the right to stop the ships and board them..... see the the san remo memorandum.
    Yet another refutation . . . without actually refuting the argument.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    That would be easy..... get the Palestinians to quit shooting at the Israeli people, that would be a great start.

    Next step would be to quit trying to blow them up.
    Well if that is what Israel is interested in, it is going about it the wrong way. At the moment the best chance of earning a living in Gaza is working for Hamas. I recently read that where they used to fire them to, Sderot I think, used to be homes to a lot of their families before they had to leave. Things are not nearly as cut and dried as you want to imagine.

    The blockade is only building up more and more terrorists for the future. There are adults there now who have never been out.

    It is so not necessary for Israel's security to keep this city cut off from the rest of the world. Psychologically it is extremely damaging and the longer it goes on the more normal it seems and hence the more damage is done.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Because Gaza's territory is still under effective Israeli control. Nothing can fly over Gaza without Israeli approval. No boat can come to Gaza's coast without Israeli approval. And no person or vehicle can enter Gaza without Israeli approval. Thus Israel still occupies Gaza without playing the part of the Occupying Power.
    The counter argument is that Gaza is "under seige" fron air, land, sea etc, but is not an occupied territory, and by extension the laws governing how occupying powers must act does not apply in this case in its entirety.

    The High Court in Israel has actually ruled on this issue, stating,
    "[S]ince September 2005, Israel no longer has effective control over the events in the Gaza strip. The military government that had applied to that area was annulled in a government decision, and Israeli soldiers are not in the area on a permanent basis, nor are they managing affairs there. In such circumstances, the State of Israel does not have a general duty to look after the welfare of the residents of the strip or to maintain public order within the Gaza Strip pursuant to the entirety of the Law of Belligerent Occupation in International Law. Nor does Israel have effective capability, in its present status, to enforce order and manage civilian life in the Gaza Strip. In the circumstances which have been created, the main duties of the State of Israel relating to the residents of the Gaza Strip are derived from the situation of armed conflict that exists between it and the Hamas organization controlling the Gaza Strip; these duties also stem from the extent of the State of Israel's control over the border crossings between it and the Gaza Strip, as well as from the relations which has been created between Israel and the territory of the Gaza Strip after the years of Israeli military rule in the area, as a result of which the Gaza Strip has now become almost completely dependent upon supply of electricity by Israel."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Because Gaza's territory is still under effective Israeli control. Nothing can fly over Gaza without Israeli approval. No boat can come to Gaza's coast without Israeli approval. And no person or vehicle can enter Gaza without Israeli approval. Thus Israel still occupies Gaza without playing the part of the Occupying Power.

    You left out one little detail there.... Israel does not occupy Gaza, they just control access to it. Big difference in law.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    The counter argument is that Gaza is "under seige" fron air, land, sea etc, but is not an occupied territory, and by extension the laws governing how occupying powers must act does not apply in this case in its entirety.

    The High Court in Israel has actually ruled on this issue, stating,
    The UN considers Gaza still occupied. It is put quite well here
    "They are re-invading occupied territory," Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi said on "CNN Sunday Morning." She added that Israel has "all the powers and none of the responsibilities of the occupying force."

    Ambassador Reda Mansour, Israel's consul general to the Southeastern United States, decried "the same old story about 'occupation.'" He added, "We didn't have, until the last 48 hours, one soldier inside Gaza. We didn't have one settler there."

    The United Nations still calls Gaza "occupied," although U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon last year balked at the question. U.S. government Web sites also describe Gaza as "occupied." Israel's supreme court ruled last year that after the disengagement, Israel "had no effective control over what occurred" inside Gaza, according to the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
    Is Gaza 'occupied' territory? - CNN.com
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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