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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    IDF: Soldiers were met by well-planned lynch in Gaza waters

    Israel is trying too justify this massacre thought they also forget a 85 year old Holocaust survivor was on the Flotilla.
    From your source, some questions start to be answered:

    According to IDF reports, at least 10 acitivists were killed during the ensuing clashes as well as six Navy commandos, some of them from gunfire and at least one in serious condition with a head wound. Foreign reports claimed that the number of dead was close to 15. Some of the wounded were evacuated to Israeli hospital by Air Force helicopters.

    Upon boarding the ships, the soldiers encountered fierce resistance from the passangers who were armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. The soldiers used non-lethal measures to disperse the crowd. The activists succeeded in stealing the weapon from one of the IDF’s soldiers and reportedly opened fire, leading to an escalation in violence.
    Still too early to say anything for sure, and conflicting reports from both sides leaves some things in question.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    You.
    Well then, you've committed an infraction. Or, Rather, have been forced to accuse me of Dishonesty because you could NOT refute my links.. NY Tiimes and Economist mag.
    Accusing them of Dishonesty, your Original intent, of course only Discredits YOU.
    So you switched.. but switched into a persoanl insult.
    Out of my frying pan.. into the fire.

    Cement has dropped Tenfold in price, Gasoline costs 1/3 of what it does in the West Bank, "Supply often exceeds demand", Tunnelers complain it no longer pays (after 1000 in 8 miles). Motorcycles lined up by the Thousands. 30,000 people now working in the Booming Biz.... etc etc etc.. yet we have this PR "Supply Ship" STUNT.


    You Haven't Refuted a Single word in the Articles.
    Hatuey has been utterly gutted by Credible Sources ....and reverts to personal insult.


    Which undocumented crap? The one that says over 50% of Palestinians live in poverty? Lol. Hardly undocumented.
    What's not documented yet is the death toll You trumpeted gleefully, and perhaps why they are dead.. (some reports say thet tried to wrestle weapons from Israeli soldiers). and what's also not Refuted is WHY they live in Poverty.
    NOT Israel.

    You. We went over this above.
    And you had no real answer then either.


    Irrelevant, people on the ground reporting that there are black markets with inflated prices while forgetting the majority of the population lives in poverty are simply paying lip service to Israel's defenders. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Already covered.
    Gazans live far better than others in other countries without the UNRWA support net and without Billions of aid coming in.
    Already explained is why many do live in poverty... untenable Demographics.
    Untouched.

    Only the majority of them can't afford it. As over 50% of them live in poverty and prices as your articles say are inflated. Oh I'm sorry?
    Am I exposing your dishonesty? Here, I'll highlight the part you forgot:
    Again, I already said many Gazans (and Cairenes and Somalis and Yemenis and Pakistanis, etc) lived in Poverty and Explained why-- while you innuendo against the Jewish State without documentation of why.
    So no, you are Not exposing my "Dishonesty" and I resent this.. but rather your posts betray a Total lack of knowledge about this topic.
    -
    Laughable. Somalia has over 50 years of oppression at the hands of foreign and local establishments. Pakistan only became a country this century and for most of it's history has been engulfed in various wars. Yemen had a civil war less than 20 years ago. Comparing Gaza to them only serves to cement my point. Not yours. Now stop this. You're making yourself look simple.
    And Gaza has a history of terrorism which brought on the Blockade.. nonetheless they are also No worse off the Cairenes just 200 miles away, or Yemenis, nor Pakistanis. ALL of the latter you HAD to Drop as you could NOT explain it away.
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 04:21 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    If we assume (as newspapers report) that it has happened in international waters, do you think that the israeli commando had the right to board these ships?
    I have not seen any reports that it was actually in international waters, can you offer a link please?

    In terms of legal issues, if Israel is in an open state of conflict with Hamas, which I think they are, then imposing a blockade is not actually illegal, and it is not illegal to prevent ships from entering the blockade area, regardless of their purpose or intent.

    And, second question, let's also assume that the deads are not Israeli (that's also very likely, but newspapers have to confirm that), don't you think that the use of force (10 killed apparently) is totally out of proportion with the danger caused by these ships (humanitarian ships loaded with wheelchairs and food, with several European MEP and apparently some guys who had knives)?
    I saw reports that the crew attacked soldiers with bats, knives, etc, and wrestled a gun from one IDF soldier and opened fire, resulting in fire being returned.

    Just need to wait for more info.
    Last edited by NolaMan; 05-31-10 at 03:59 AM.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I have not seen any reports that it was actually in international waters, can you offer a link please?
    Unless they were 24 miles off the coast of Israel, then they were not in Israeli waters. A number of 65 miles off the coast has been floated, and if true, then they we have a legal problem of epic proportions.

    In terms of legal issues, if Israel is in an open state of conflict with Hamas, which I think they are, then imposing a blockade is not actually illegal, and it is not illegal to prevent ships from entering the blockade area, regardless of their purpose or intent.
    That might be, but that still does not green light piracy, murder and acts of terror. No wait, Israel is special after all and allowed to do whatever they wish.

    I saw reports that the crew attacked soldiers with bats, knives, etc, and wrestled a gun from one IDF soldier and opened fire, resulting in fire being returned.
    So the crew are not allowed to defend themselves and their passengers form pirates now? So people on boats being attacked by Somalia pirates should not fight back because it is illegal?

    Just need to wait for more info.
    The IDF info will be watered down, lack actual facts and of course portrait the IDF as the victim. They are already doing this on international TV. They are yet again pulling the defense of "defending ourselves against unarmed fanatics"..

    The Hamas version will be blown out of proportion and ignored by the IDF, even though they were the first to say that 19 were killed at least.

    The International version from others will also be ignored by the IDF, just as they have done every time despite being taken with their pants down. Lets remind everyone.. The IDF does not torture.. err okay we did, but we dont do anymore! The IDF does not use human shields.. err yea that video of our troops using human shields, well.. moving on.. But the international version will be anti-Israeli according to the IDF of course, so it will be ignored.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Angry demonstrators outside Israeli consulate in Istanbul (Extra) - Monsters and Critics


    Apparently they have live feed of the ship from a Turkish ship.
    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 05-31-10 at 04:46 AM.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I have not seen any reports that it was actually in international waters, can you offer a link please?
    BBC News - Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
    The incident happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.
    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    In terms of legal issues, if Israel is in an open state of conflict with Hamas, which I think they are, then imposing a blockade is not actually illegal, and it is not illegal to prevent ships from entering the blockade area, regardless of their purpose or intent.
    You are slightly incorrect. If Israel is to maintain a blockade on Gaza, regardless of motive, it must abide by laws regulating Occupying Powers. Israel says it is no longer occupying Gaza, despite imposing a land, air, and naval blockade for the past three years. It is illegal for Israel to maintain a blockade on Gaza without abiding by international laws. The blockade is an act of aggression.`

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas




    I found the Al Jazzeer video

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Another Credible source.
    This morning's Wall Street Journal citing two sides of the story.
    Minutes ago.

    More Than 10 Dead Dead After Israel Intercepts Gaza Aid Convoy - WSJ.com
    MAY 31, 2010, 3:17 A.M. ET

    "TEL AVIV—Israeli warships early Monday intercepted a flotilla of activists and aid bound for the blockaded Gaza Strip, and Israel's military confirmed that more than 10 activists had been killed in a Skirmish after Israeli forces boarded at least one of the ships.

    The ships involved were still at sea, under Israeli naval escort, and believed headed for an Israeli port. The details of the boarding weren't clear early Monday.

    An Israeli army spokesman accused activists on the ships of arming themselves with knives and clubs. The spokesman said at least a dozen activists had been injured, as well as 10 Israeli military personnel, in the fighting. He said activists stole a gun from one Israeli personnel and started firing on the soldiers.

    Local media put the death toll much higher. Israel's Channel 2, a private station, citing Palestinian officials, reported early Monday that at least 16 died in a confrontation between Israel forces and activists and crew members aboard the ships. The station said Israeli soldiers acted only After responding to violence, but the source of the report wasn't clear.
    [................]
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 04:58 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Another Credible source.
    This morning's Wall Street Journal citing two sides of the story.
    Minutes ago.

    More Than 10 Dead Dead After Israel Intercepts Gaza Aid Convoy - WSJ.com
    MAY 31, 2010, 3:17 A.M. ET
    Yes, that is pretty much what we have been saying here in the thread.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Another Credible source.
    This morning's Wall Street Journal citing two sides of the story.
    --
    Interesting that the WSJ's only real reference to whether this was in international waters or not is a quote from the Turkish Ministry.

    If this was in International waters then Israeli troops have committed an act tantamount to piracy and the people on board the ships were entitled to defend themselves. Unfortunately I doubt anyone involved in ordering the boarding will be punished or held responsible if Israel turns out to be guilty.

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