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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #261
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You just don't seem to get it...... Israel was justified by international law to stop and search those ships. Haven't you read all of the citations to that effect in this thread?.... why do you ignore the facts and continue spewing your crap?
    I've read the whole thread, maybe skimmed a few pages, but read all the thread.

    No, I don'd read that under International Law she had the right to enter a ship in International waters. I read the opposite.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Yeah, he must have fallen off, lmao. I still like to know exactly how 10 peope died but that could well have been the first.

    Sink the Belgrano!

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Yeah, he must have fallen off, lmao. I still like to know exactly how 10 peope died but that could well have been the first.
    It isn't clear at all. That is what I said. The video had writing to tell you what was happening because it knew it was unlcear. Such a thing is not evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post

    Sink the Belgrano!
    You must have missed the thread in the European section where I gave my opinion on the Falklands.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  4. #264
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I've read the whole thread, maybe skimmed a few pages, but read all the thread.

    No, I don'd read that under International Law she had the right to enter a ship in International waters. I read the opposite.
    I know it's easy to miss things.....

    Mark Regev, spokesman for the Prime Minister of Israel, has stated that "the San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade. That blockade is in place to protect our people."[55] The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea was adopted in June 1994 after a series of round tables of naval and legal experts convened by the International Institute of Humanitarian Law. In paragraph 67 it permits belligerents to attack merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States if they "are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture". Paragraph 146 permits the capture of neutral merchant vessels outside neutral waters if they are engaged in any of the activities referred to in paragraph 67.[56]
    Gaza flotilla clash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's 1/2 way down the page under "Legality of raid"
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  5. #265
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Well it certainly looks as if the soldier falls off for some reason but I certainly cannot make out the other things. It is not clear at all. Do you not think that people have reason to fear they are under attack when people start coming down from a helicopter onto their ship?
    Answer to your question, no. All those involved in this long planned, carefully scripted, flotilla operation should have had a fair idea of exactly what was going to happen when they tried to run the blockade. And would also suspect that many of the passengers on the ship had their roles/actions pre-determined based on specifically how or what the Israeli response(s) were.....


    .

  6. #266
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The Law of the Sea Convention (LOSC) is based on customary international law, including the Hague Conventions. It does not "create" authority for visiting/inspecting ships. It only defines what is permissible. Whether one is or is not a signatory of the Convention does not mean that one lacks authority to visit/inspect ships. Such authority existed prior too the LOSC.
    You only get authority under international law if you are bound by the treaties that created that international law.

    It's that simple.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    So by this argument, and International law, Israel was fully justified in their actions...... thanx for playing.
    No -- by my argument, Israel is as justified in their actions as the Somali pirates, because their argument is might makes right.

    Thanks for playing.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    I know it's easy to miss things.....



    Gaza flotilla clash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    very disputed according to your link. While Israel may think it is legal, others do not

    Mark Regev, spokesman for the Prime Minister of Israel, has stated that "the San Remo memorandum[66] states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade. That blockade is in place to protect our people."[67]

    Senior political analyst Marwan Bishara of Al Jazeera has stated that "Attacking other nations' citizens in international waters because they resisted arrest is not only illegal, but serves to demean international legal norms."[68] Turkey, the unofficial sponsor of the mission has said through its Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, "this attack is state terrorism, violating international law." The Turkish government has requested NATO convene in an emergency session to discuss the incident.[69][70]

    Robin Churchill, a professor of international law at the University of Dundee in Scotland, said the Israeli commandos boarded the ship outside of Israel's territorial waters. "As far as I can see, there is no legal basis for boarding these ships," Churchill said.[71]

    Dr. Robbie Sabel of Hebrew University, an international law expert, has stated that "a state, in a time of conflict, can impose an embargo, and while it cannot carry out embargo activities in the territorial waters of a third party, it can carry out embargo activities in international waters. Within this framework it is legal to detain a civilian vessel trying to break an embargo and if in the course of detaining the vessel, force is used against the forces carrying out the detention then that force has every right to act in self defense."[72]

    On Monday, a group of lawyers including Avigdor Feldman, Yiftah Cohen, Itamar Mann and Omer Shatz petitioned the Israeli High Court, charging that Israel had violated the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea by capturing the boats in international waters. Robbie Sabel, the former legal adviser to the Israeli foreign ministry, told The Jerusalem Post that the state would almost certainly argue that the seizure of the vessels was an executive act with which the court was not authorized to intervene.[73]

    Navi Pillay, the UN high commissioner for human rights, said she was registering shock "at reports that humanitarian aid was met with violence early this morning, reportedly causing death and injury as the convoy approached the Gaza coast"[74] and that "nothing can justify the appalling outcome of this operation, which reportedly took place in international waters."[75] Voice of Russia reported that "Russia calls attention to the fact that the Israeli interception of a Gaza-bound international aid flotilla took place in international waters, which represents a gross violation of international law".[76] The Organization of the Islamic Conference, an association of 57 Islamic states promoting Muslim solidarity, described the flotilla incident as "a serious escalation and a flagrant violation of the international law and human values." The organization further said it would initiate action at the level of the Security Council and the Human Rights Commission to examine the fallout of the attack.[77][78]

    Ove Bring, expert on public international law, said that Israel had no right to take military action.
    [79]
    Like I said, Israel may say it is legal but others do not.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    It isn't clear at all. That is what I said. The video had writing to tell you what was happening because it knew it was unlcear. Such a thing is not evidence.
    If 'such is not evidence' then maybe the whole thing has not happened, you may wonder where Al-Jahzeera based its death toll on. Reasonability, without it, everything's unclear. Sometimes things are just what they seem to be. Let's assume, for now, that the writing describes what happens in the video shall we?

    You must have missed the thread in the European section where I gave my opinion on the Falklands.
    I did, you were in favor of that decission?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Answer to your question, no.
    So you are boarded in the high seas and not just by people from other boats which would require some time, but by people coming down from helicopters and you do not believe you are under attack?

    I would be thinking SAS, guns are going to start firing. SAS for me because I am British but I can see no reason to board a ship from a helicopter if there is not a sense of urgency. Army and sense of urgency means bullets flying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    All those involved in this long planned, carefully scripted, flotilla operation should have had a fair idea of exactly what was going to happen when they tried to run the blockade. And would also suspect that many of the passengers on the ship had their roles/actions pre-determined based on specifically how or what the Israeli response(s) were......
    This is speculation.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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