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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    That's their justification for killing 16 unarmed civillians in international waters?!?! BS
    I just posted it, I am not responsible for it. Right now, until we have more firm details, I am not making any judgments. At this point, it looks bad, but all the details are coming from one side. Gunna wait awhile to draw conclusions.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    I expect all those up in arms about North Korean sinking a South Korean submarine to be up in arms about this.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    It's a Shame if anyone lost their lives in this PR Stunt-... as Gaza is Not starving nor short of Anything they're bringing.

    October, NY times

    Rafah Journal
    Goods Flood Gaza’s Tunnels, Turning Border Area Into a Shopping Mecca http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/wo...t/22rafah.html
    By TAGHREED EL-KHODARY
    October 21, 2009
    RAFAH, Gaza — Dusty sacks filled with cans of Coca-Cola were being loaded onto trucks by young boys, headed for Supermarkets in Gaza City.
    Thousands of Motorcycles were lined up on display in a nearby stadium, ranging in price from $2,000 to $10,000.

    At Nijma market, refrigerators, flat-screen televisions, microwaves, air-conditioners, generators and ovens filled the tents,
    all at inflated prices, having been spirited into this town on the border with Egypt through tunnels under the sand. Some Gazans have even purchased Cars smuggled in parts into the isolated Palestinian enclave.
    [...........]
    there are more tunnels now than ever, and Rafah has turned into a Shopping Mecca where the tunnel owners are kings.
    [...........]In the past, armed gangs roamed this frontier town with a lawless feel; journalists and humanitarian workers were about the only visitors to venture here. Now, customers flock in from all over Gaza. What started as a few clandestine tunnels dug beneath houses has turned into a booming industry that nobody bothers to hide.

    Before the Gaza war the tunnels numbered in the hundreds. Today about 1,500 of them are said to be crammed into an eight-mile stretch along the border, employing in the neighborhood of 30,000 Palestinians from all over the territory. A local merchant has opened a 24-hour grocery store called “Dubai” to cater to them. Only the milk and the yogurt come from Israel. The Soft drinks, Beans, Chocolate, Cookies and Cooking oil come in consignments from under the ground.

    Across the street Abu Raed Alarja, 58, fixes tools that are used to dig the tunnels. Inside his dark store, he also stocks cement, generators and blue plastic barrels strung together with strong ropes, used to drag goods from the Egyptian side....
    http://www.economist.com/world/middl...y_id=15824034| The Economist
    Hamas has done well to survive but it is threatened by Rivalry among Islamists
    The Economist, Mar 31st 2010
    ....The tunnels that snake under Gaza’s border with Egypt have multiplied so fast that supply sometimes exceeds demand. So stiff is commercial competition that tunnel-diggers complain that their work is no longer profitable. As a British parliamentary report recently noted, Israel officially allows Gaza to import only 73 of more than 4,000 items that are available in the strip. The rest is home-made—or acquired illicitly. For instance, cement, which cost 300 Israeli shekels ($80) a sack two years ago, has dropped almost tenfold in price, precipitating a Spate of building for the first time since Israel’s attack a year ago reduced 4,000 houses to ruins. And eyewitnesses say that flashy 4x4 vehicles can actually drive through tunnels built from shipping containers.

    Israel’s siege still causes misery. Yet some economists say the strip is growing faster than the West Bank run by Hamas’s rival Palestinian Authority (PA), albeit from a far lower base. The petrol pumped into Gaza by underground pipes and hoses from Egypt costs a third of what it does in Ramallah, the Palestinians’ West Bank capital, where Israel supplies it.
    Free health care is more Widely available in Gaza.
    Imports travel faster through the tunnels than via Israel’s thickets of bureaucracy...."

    As well as lower prices, Gazans benefit from civil-service payrolls. Several outfits pump cash into the strip’s economy: the local Hamas government; the UN, which employs 10,000 Gazans; and Salam Fayyad’s West Bank government, which is the largest employer of all. Payments to Hamas and its connected tunnel-operators boost the economy too. A car-dealer bringing in a new Hyundai saloon through the tunnels stands to make a profit of $13,000.

    Above ground things look better, too. In the 14 months since the war ended, Hamas has swept up much of the wreckage. The Islamic University, bombed by Israel’s aircraft, sparkles again. New cafés have opened across Gaza City......"
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 03:22 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    No official statements from the Israeli government or Navy yet.

    Israeli media are reporting that the convoy was instructed by radio to either return to Cyprus or head for the port city of Ashdod where humanitarian supplies would be off-loaded and then transfered to Gaza.

    It seems that when neither directive was followed, Israeli helicopter-borne commandos boarded the convoy flagship. Apparently, activists then engaged them with lethal force and the commandos responded with lethal force.

    No firm report on fatalities. It is reported that seven wounded (one critical) have been flown to a hospital in Haifa, but is is unknown at this time if these casualties are commandos or activists.

    An ugly situation indeed

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    It's a Shame if anyone lost their lives in this PR Stunt-... as Gaza is Not starving nor short of Anything they're bringing.

    October, NY times
    Rafah Journal
    Goods Flood Gaza’s Tunnels, Turning Border Area Into a Shopping Mecca http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/wo...t/22rafah.html
    By TAGHREED EL-KHODARY
    October 21, 2009

    Economist.com The Economist
    Hamas has done well to survive but it is threatened by Rivalry among Islamists
    The Economist, Mar 31st 2010
    60% of Gaza lives under poverty levels. Your links are meaningless and quite dishonest. Black markets with inflated prices are not representative of a populations wealth but of the poverty it is experiencing. What I find best is your selective highlighting.

    http://www.immigration-usa.com/wfb20...k_economy.html

    GDP:
    purchasing power parity - $1.7 billion (2002 est.)

    GDP - real growth rate:
    -22% (2002 est.)


    GDP - per capita:
    purchasing power parity - $800 (2002 est.)

    GDP - composition by sector:
    agriculture: 9%
    industry: 28%
    services: 63%
    note: includes Gaza Strip (1999 est.)

    Population below poverty line:
    60% (2003 est.)


    Household income or consumption by percentage share:
    lowest 10%: NA%
    highest 10%: NA%

    Inflation rate (consumer prices):
    2.2% (includes Gaza Strip) (2001 est.)

    Labor force:
    NA

    Labor force - by occupation:
    services 66%, industry 21%, agriculture 13% (1996)

    Unemployment rate:
    50% (includes Gaza Strip) (2003 est.)


    Budget:
    revenues: $676.6 million
    expenditures: $1.155 billion, including capital expenditures of NA (includes Gaza Strip) (2003 est.)

    Industries:
    generally small family businesses that produce cement, textiles, soap, olive-wood carvings, and mother-of-pearl souvenirs; the Israelis have established some small-scale, modern industries in the settlements and industrial centers

    Industrial production growth rate:
    NA%

    Electricity - production:
    NA kWh; note - most electricity imported from Israel; East Jerusalem Electric Company buys and distributes electricity to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and its concession in the West Bank; the Israel Electric Company directly supplies electricity to most Jewish residents and military facilities; some Palestinian municipalities, such as Nablus and Janin, generate their own electricity from small power plants

    Electricity - production by source:
    fossil fuel: 100%
    hydro: 0%
    nuclear: 0%
    other: 0% (2001)

    Electricity - consumption:
    NA kWh

    Electricity - imports:
    NA kWh

    Agriculture - products:
    olives, citrus, vegetables; beef, dairy products

    Exports:
    $603 million f.o.b., includes Gaza Strip

    Exports - commodities:
    olives, fruit, vegetables, limestone

    Exports - partners:
    Israel, Jordan, Gaza Strip (2000)

    Imports:
    $1.9 billion c.i.f., includes Gaza Strip

    Imports - commodities:
    food, consumer goods, construction materials

    Imports - partners:
    Israel, Jordan, Gaza Strip (2000)

    Debt - external:
    $108 million (includes Gaza Strip) (1997 est.)

    Economic aid - recipient:
    $2 billion (includes Gaza Strip) (2001-02 est.)

    Currency:
    new Israeli shekel (ILS); Jordanian dinar (JOD)

    Currency code:
    ILS; JOD
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-31-10 at 03:26 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    60% of Gaza lives under poverty levels. Your links are meaningless and quite dishonest. Black markets with inflated prices are not representative of a populations wealth but of the poverty it is experiencing. What I find best is your selective highlighting.
    My links from the Economist and NY Times are "Dishonest"?
    Fabricating the Booming market in Gaza -- but in such great DETAIL.. thousand of motorcycles no less.
    What shall we call your Undocumented Crap then?
    What's Dishonest?
    Those are from reporters reporting the actual on-the-ground situation.
    Much more With Pictures available.

    Gazans have all the goods and services they can afford and more.
    The UNRWA, their very own agency which we pay for, keeps them overall much better than less well known similar ones mentioned below.

    Many Gazans do live in poverty... of course.. no worse poverty than other countries with a median age of 17 and growing the population 40% every 10 years. (doubling every 20 yrs)

    They're simply No place for them to work.
    Only the Arab Gulf states can afford the Arab fertility rate, and even the Saudi GDP per person is falling.
    Think Condoms!
    They are in no worse shape the the residents of Cairo overall
    or any other Place with similar demographics (Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, etc).
    But that can hardly be attributed to Israel.
    As someone who is fluent on this topic and made most of his posts here on it and in the M-E section, it's amusing/Insulting/Laughable to get a lecture from a total Rookie who just read todays' headlines.

    And this is hardly New/News for me.. even tho it is for You.
    3/20/2010
    My string debunking this ongoing BS.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ugee-camp.html
    Last edited by mbig; 05-31-10 at 03:49 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    No official statements from the Israeli government or Navy yet.

    Israeli media are reporting that the convoy was instructed by radio to either return to Cyprus or head for the port city of Ashdod where humanitarian supplies would be off-loaded and then transfered to Gaza.

    It seems that when neither directive was followed, Israeli helicopter-borne commandos boarded the convoy flagship. Apparently, activists then engaged them with lethal force and the commandos responded with lethal force.

    No firm report on fatalities. It is reported that seven wounded (one critical) have been flown to a hospital in Haifa, but is is unknown at this time if these casualties are commandos or activists.

    An ugly situation indeed
    If we assume (as newspapers report) that it has happened in international waters, do you think that the israeli commando had the right to board these ships?

    And, second question, let's also assume that the deads are not Israeli (that's also very likely, but newspapers have to confirm that), don't you think that the use of force (10 killed apparently) is totally out of proportion with the danger caused by these ships (humanitarian ships loaded with wheelchairs and food, with several European MEP and apparently some guys who had knives)?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    No official statements from the Israeli government or Navy yet.

    Israeli media are reporting that the convoy was instructed by radio to either return to Cyprus or head for the port city of Ashdod where humanitarian supplies would be off-loaded and then transfered to Gaza.

    It seems that when neither directive was followed, Israeli helicopter-borne commandos boarded the convoy flagship. Apparently, activists then engaged them with lethal force and the commandos responded with lethal force.

    No firm report on fatalities. It is reported that seven wounded (one critical) have been flown to a hospital in Haifa, but is is unknown at this time if these casualties are commandos or activists.

    An ugly situation indeed
    I saw the comment about the convey being instructed to turn back or go to Ashdod. If that is true, it certainly sheds some more light onto the situation. The question will probably end up being why did the Israeli forces open fire. Unless the convey made a hostile move(other than not turning, which really is not hostile), opening fire at that point was premature at best. Still waiting for more details before anything is firm though. Still way too much not known to make an effective judgment on the actions.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    My links from the Economist and NY Times are "Dishonest" or me?
    You.

    What shall we call your Undocumented Crap then?
    Which undocumented crap? The one that says over 50% of Palestinians live in poverty? Lol. Hardly undocumented.

    What's Dishonest?
    You. We went over this above.

    Those are from reporters on the ground reporting the actuial on-the-ground situation.
    Much more With Pictures available.
    Irrelevant, people on the ground reporting that there are black markets with inflated prices while forgetting the majority of the population lives in poverty are simply paying lip service to Israel's defenders. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Gazans have all the goods and services they can afford and more.
    Only the majority of them can't afford it. As over 50% of them live in poverty and prices as your articles say are inflated. Oh I'm sorry? Am I exposing your dishonesty? Here, I'll highlight the part you forgot:

    RAFAH, Gaza — Dusty sacks filled with cans of Coca-Cola were being loaded onto trucks by young boys, headed for Supermarkets in Gaza City.
    Thousands of Motorcycles were lined up on display in a nearby stadium, ranging in price from $2,000 to $10,000.

    At Nijma market, refrigerators, flat-screen televisions, microwaves, air-conditioners, generators and ovens filled the tents, all at inflated prices, having been spirited into this town on the border with Egypt through tunnels under the sand. Some Gazans have even purchased Cars smuggled in parts into the isolated Palestinian enclave.
    The UNRWA, their very own agency which we pay for, keeps them overall much better than less well known similar ones mentioned below.

    Many Gazans do live in poverty... of course.. no worse poverty than other countries with a median age of 17 and growing the population 40% every 10 years. (doubling every 20 yrs)

    They're simply No place for them to work.
    Only the Arab Gulf states can afford the Arab fertility rate, and even the Saudi GDP per person is falling.
    Think Condoms!
    They are in no worse shape the the residents of Cairo overall
    or any other Place with similar demographics (Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, etc).
    But that can hardly be attributed to Israel.
    As someone who is fluent on this topic and made most of his posts here on it and in the M-E section, it's amusing/Insdulting/Laughable to get a lecture from a total Rookie who just read todays' headlines.

    But this is hardly News for me.. even tho it is for You.
    3/20/2010
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ugee-camp.html
    Laughable. Somalia has over 50 years of oppression at the hands of foreign and local establishments. Pakistan only became a country this century and for most of it's history has been engulfed in various wars. Yemen had a civil war less than 20 years ago. Comparing Gaza to them only serves to cement my point. Not yours. Now stop this. You're making yourself look simple.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    IDF: Soldiers were met by well-planned lynch in Gaza waters

    Israel is trying too justify this massacre thought they also forget a 85 year old Holocaust survivor was on the Flotilla.


    http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/52660
    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 05-31-10 at 03:55 AM.

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