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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #1431
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- There is no real evidence to back that up, it's most likely as made up as the claim that soldiers were not attacked or that they came on board shooting.
    Firstly, as Israel has all the phones and cameras from both flotillas, we cannot judge impartially can we? I only have various witness reports as given to the BBC – however, as we seem to have established – all sources that are not Israeli Govt sources are obviously false aren’t they?

    Further – if you are trying to say I denied the soldiers were attacked – I’d be most pleased if you could find that post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- By simply stating that those activists' words are facts, you make yourself an enemy of rationality.
    Oh dear, tin foil hat time is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- Neither Amnesty nor the UN have ever proven the contrary.
    Amnesty has only claimed that 80% of Gazans depend on humanitarian aid - that can't possibly base the assumption that they are 'forced' to depend on it.
    There aren’t many jobs in Gaza, I read somewhere that some of the best paid workers are those building the tunnels into Gaza for Hamas – that doesn’t leave many people with regular employment or savings after years of blockade to buy what is imported does it? Not that I expect you to acknowledge this – somehow Gazans must have secret monetary sources somewhere eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- Because that was enough to prove your wrongness and expose you on a lie.
    Um-hum…

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- I thought we've already reached the agreement that Israel provides 15,000 tons of aid.
    Hahahahahaha! (Sorry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- After all it was you who stated that the UN says it's only a quarter of what's needed.
    I am quite surprised that you lack the knowledge over such simple matters.
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+...5-May-2010.htm
    Admit it to be pathetic then.
    Hoho!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- You said that Israel restricts movement within and outside of the Gaza Strip. I have in return explained that the restrictions come to stop militants from getting in/out of the strip.
    You've then made the ridiculous claim that they can go into Israel if they want to, using the tunnels.
    Already explained this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- In other words, you've just recalled that it was someone else who've posted that report and have decided to let it go.
    Already explained this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- The credit for the minimal deaths amount goes entirely to Israel for the billions of dollars it has invested in security systems that nearly fully prevent such deaths.
    Throw thousands of unguided rockets into London, and whether they hit near the Big Ben or near the Backingham Palace, you're still bound to get hundreds of deaths.
    What does that have to do with anything? Are you even trying to understand my statements?
    You were claiming that the rockets are not "killing weapons" because not many Israelis die from them.
    I have in return made an analogy to a nuclear weapon that is being taken out in the air while not endagering anyone.
    Guided or not, nuclear weapons have the potentiality to cause millions of deaths. Claiming that because the nuke was shot down it is hence not a killing weapon is extremely retarded, and that is the analogy I've made with the rockets not killing many Israelis, because of the Israeli security systems.
    Yes, it must be retarded, after all – it’s only something that the Israeli Ministry of Defense said in 2006 about such rockets being more of a “psychological rather than physical threat.”

    Oh… but wait! It’s an Israeli Govt dept that said it.. how do you reconcile your position these days?

    Anyhow – I’ve discussed this previously with StevenA59 who (impressively after only 22 posts) seems to have quite extensive knowledge of my posting style and habits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- Simply source your claims and spare me the headache.
    Not my job. I’m doing this for Gardener’s health…

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- I've posted a source earlier.
    TeeHee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- I don't think that I've left any serious claim they've made towards the illegality of the blockade untouched.
    Yawn, you should have a seat on the Israeli Supreme Court. Why did they waste so much time dealing with this when you could deal with Gisha so comprehensively and so thoroughly if you had been there?


    [QUOTE=Apocalypse;1058792723]-- I believe they were all debated about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- Reuters is one of the best news sources there are.
    Did I say in the post you are responding to that I said Reuters wasn’t neutral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- It was claiming that their legal experts have all neglected your claim that the interception was done illegally, and that there is no doubt currently that Israel was completely within its legitimate rights.
    They’re not Reuter’s legal experts. Read your own source please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    -- Unfortunately you cannot simply admit being wrong, certainly not about Israel, so we have this comment questioning the people behind the source that a moment ago was declared as neutral by you. (and it really is neutral)
    OK, I’m wrong, there aren’t legal experts all around the world disagreeing on the blockade or on the raid. None at all.

    Oh, and again - did I say in the post you are responding to that I said Reuters wasn’t neutral? Or anywhere else?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Firstly, as Israel has all the phones and cameras from both flotillas, we cannot judge impartially can we? I only have various witness reports as given to the BBC – however, as we seem to have established – all sources that are not Israeli Govt sources are obviously false aren’t they?
    Their ships were delivering propaganda.
    The activists have done everything they've done for the sake of propaganda.
    They've went on the news and have clearly lied about Israeli soldiers not being attacked, Israeli soldiers opening fire for no goddamned reason, etc.
    Clearly I do not see how any rational objective person is going to buy their claims that they were attacked on other ships.
    Further – if you are trying to say I denied the soldiers were attacked – I’d be most pleased if you could find that post?
    I'd like you to point at when I was talking about you when I said that.
    I was talking about the activists from that boat.
    Oh dear, tin foil hat time is it?
    Truth hurts.
    When you take the activists words for facts you do not simply state your bias, you also express deep irrationality.
    There aren’t many jobs in Gaza, I read somewhere that some of the best paid workers are those building the tunnels into Gaza for Hamas – that doesn’t leave many people with regular employment or savings after years of blockade to buy what is imported does it? Not that I expect you to acknowledge this – somehow Gazans must have secret monetary sources somewhere eh?
    There are craploads of jobs in Gaza that do not involve terrorism or smugglings.
    Here is a hotel located in Gaza: .: Roots Club :.
    Yes, it must be retarded, after all – it’s only something that the Israeli Ministry of Defense said in 2006 about such rockets being more of a “psychological rather than physical threat.”

    Oh… but wait! It’s an Israeli Govt dept that said it.. how do you reconcile your position these days?
    It is causing more psychological damage than physical damage - so far is true and I have absolutely not denied this.
    I will repeat my statement for the sake of your reading comperhension skills: That the rockets cause minimal physical damage is completely due to the Israeli security systems.
    Even that Goldstone report has stated that, so you're really in the minority with your thinking that the rockets are by themselves not a physical threat, because they're sent "unguided". It's absolutely ridiculous.
    Not my job. I’m doing this for Gardener’s health…
    Avoid personal attacks, they make you sound like a mentally damaged buffoon.
    They’re not Reuter’s legal experts. Read your own source please.
    I was quoting directly from the Reuters' Q&A article.
    That for itself is showing that Reuters trust what's written within it, and that's undeniable.

    You may notice that I have chosen not to respond to your "Hoho", "haha" "you should be on the Israeli supreme court" statements.
    I find it wrong to waste my time replying to such trollish sentences.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Such as? I can't see Obama risking whatever it is you have in mind, by doing it. If you loose the support of the Israeli lobby, your not going to get very far in the elections.
    I had to go to work this morning sorry, so here is what I was talking about, all the U.S. has to do is defund the U.N., it's a waste of money, and not to mention to take their sorry asses else where.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrugem View Post
    well.. Israel gave them lands, one of the most important ground, one of the most fetilized area of all southern Israel, were given to them in 2005, Israel free their prosiners in exchange for dead Israeli civilians, Israel provides them electricity, Israel eve provides them water.
    Where the motivasion ah..?
    It would be much easier to disconect them from the electricity and water and let them hand their country on their own. BUT the world will say we unhumanitarian.

    Some words of wisdome, by FOXnews channel:



    I agree, I am not saying Israel hasn't done more on their part in those negotiations, they have and then some, what I am saying is the those who object to Israel really do need to drop the double standard and stop with inciting the Arab community..


    I agree, I am not saying Israel hasn't done more on their part in those negotiations, they have and then some, what I am saying is the those who object to Israel really do did to drop the double standard and stop with inciting the Arab community..

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    The question of whether Palestinians have a country or not would throw up a whole load of problems for Israel. It's because Gaza and the West Bank aren't classed as countries that Israel can use weasel words when they are accused of not complying with the Geneva Conventions.

    As justabubba posted a while back - that would really throw the fact that Israel is doing to others what was once done to them and why in some quarters there is a belief that Israel can be held to a higher standard than say North Korea etc.
    Palistine also was never classed as a country either, never was.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Palistine also was never classed as a country either, never was.
    Classed by who? What are the qualifications for this classification? How does it relate to the Montevideo Convention?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Classed by who? What are the qualifications for this classification? How does it relate to the Montevideo Convention?
    Since before the Roman empire to the current U.N., Palistine has never been recognized as a sovereign country, just known as a territory named by the Roman Empire as Palaestina. Montevideo Convention?... what does have to do with the Middle East this was a agreement between Montevideo and Uruguay and the signatories where all from South America.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Their ships were delivering propaganda.
    The activists have done everything they've done for the sake of propaganda.
    They were delivering aid, they also aimed to raise the issue of the Gaza blockade and with IDF help they succeeded.

    They've went on the news and have clearly lied about Israeli soldiers not being attacked, Israeli soldiers opening fire for no goddamned reason, etc.
    Clearly I do not see how any rational objective person is going to buy their claims that they were attacked on other ships.
    You can't back your claim the protesters lied because there's no way of verifying their claims unless their recording devices are released by the IDF – similarly, I can't claim they did beyond what they have reported to international journalists.
    Lies have been told on both sides, including on this thread. This includes a claim that the flotilla protesters even had semi automatic weapons. However, I see no point in further posting interviews with the protesters about the violence against them on the other ships – you are simply no more than a spokesperson for the IDF. It's all clearly lies by the BBC and every other organisation that isn't approved by the Israeli Govt or yourself.

    Further – if you are trying to say I denied the soldiers were attacked – I’d be most pleased if you could find that post?
    I'd like you to point at when I was talking about you when I said that.
    I was asking for clarification. There is a difference between “clarification” and “accusation.” Anyhow, your words in that post were obviously meaningless then. Thank you for clarifying.

    Truth hurts.
    When you take the activists words for facts you do not simply state your bias, you also express deep irrationality.
    Oh yeah, just as I should take your simplistic denial? There are no examples of protester video left anywhere as their equipment has been confiscated. That leaves us by default with IDF versions of the “truth.”

    There are craploads of jobs in Gaza that do not involve terrorism or smugglings.
    Here is a hotel located in Gaza: .: Roots Club :.
    Oh, so it's paradise then! Why ever must the UN be wasting time trying to feed such people? I'm actually surprised the israeli population aren't falling over themselves to get into such a paradise. I mean, if Netanyahu himself writes a glowing recommendation of the restaurant – who am I to argue different?

    Step into Hasan Hasuna's grocery shop in Gaza City, the territory's main city, and you could be forgiven for thinking that Israel has a point.
    Mr Hasuna's shelves boast a surprising variety of goods, many of them banned from entering Gaza by Israel, from pasta to chocolate. There was even a box of Cadbury Creme Eggs, hard to come by in the Middle East, placed strategically at the check-out counter.
    Slightly dishevelled from their journey through the smugglers' tunnels that pass under Gaza's southern border with Egypt, they nevertheless tasted like the real thing.
    It all goes to show, argues Gerald Steinberg, an Israeli commentator, that the perception of Gaza as a disaster zone on a par with parts of Africa is deeply misleading and one that has been deliberately fostered by "pro-Palestinian" employees of the UN.
    "These UN reports are simply political propaganda," said Mr Steinberg, whose NGO Monitor seeks to redress what it claims is anti-Israel bias by some western aid agencies. "The entire humanitarian crisis claim, everything that comes out on the situation in Gaza is manipulated as political warfare against Israel."
    Yet restaurants like Roots, an anomaly in Gaza, exist even in Africa's most benighted spots. The Shamo Hotel in Mogadishu served up lobster on its rooftop restaurant even when thousands were dying of famine in Somalia, while you could wash down a Carbonade Flamande with a decent Burgundy at The Orchid in Bukavu when eastern Congo was suffering the world's worst humanitarian crisis since 1945.
    Gaza is not eastern Congo, nor is its suffering comparable. Yet by the standards of the Middle East, the poverty is palpable. In a territory the size of the Isle of Wight, 1.5 million people -- 1.1 million of them refugees from previous conflicts with Israel -- often live in conditions close to squalor.
    You are this forums' own “Gerald Steinberg” – simply a spokesperson for the IDF. You think that posting a link to Roots and claiming earlier that you see loads of fat / obese kids in Gaza (Apocalypse propaganda) negates that approximately 80% are borderline suffering (Oxfam / UN / Savethechildren / UN sources on the ground)

    -- I will repeat my statement for the sake of your reading comperhension skills: That the rockets cause minimal physical damage is completely due to the Israeli security systems.
    Even that Goldstone report has stated that, so you're really in the minority with your thinking that the rockets are by themselves not a physical threat, because they're sent "unguided". It's absolutely ridiculous.
    A bit rich to accuse me of poor reading comprehension but then you chose to ignore my explanation to others – I will check back but I remember saying the threat was more psychological: anyhow – why if the security systems are so good against rockets that are as likely to land in the middle of the desert has Israel instead invested in “Iron Dome?”

    Never mind – keep up with the insults, it shows that you have nothing new to offer when you start misquoting me and I stand by what I originally wrote. I note you've abandoned the “nuclear weapon” argument?

    -- Avoid personal attacks, they make you sound like a mentally damaged buffoon.
    You do spot the incongruity of your own oxymoron? You ask me to stop personal attacks but have used words like “pathetic”, “trollish,” “buffoon,” etc in replies to me. Not to mention hoping to claim I'm anti-semitic when Zyphlin broke cover to ask me for clarification a page or so ago. You continue to use language I haven't used against you and claim I am the one making personal attacks..

    I was quoting directly from the Reuters' Q&A article.
    That for itself is showing that Reuters trust what's written within it, and that's undeniable.

    You may notice that I have chosen not to respond to your "Hoho", "haha" "you should be on the Israeli supreme court" statements.
    Yes, I was deeply wounded.
    And I still repeat that I explained way earlier in the thread that Reuters AND other sources showed that opinion is divided across many international experts. You found one source that backs your version – fine, I found some that explained that opinions differ.

    I find it wrong to waste my time replying to such trollish sentences.
    Um-hum.. is it trollish to laugh at someone trying desperately to wriggle out of their own mistakes or is it trollish to use works like “pathetic” and “buffoon” in your posts to me?

    Is it trollish to post a claim that automatic weapons had been brought on board the flotilla and then accuse others of lying?

    Is it trollish to post false claims (automatic weapons found on board), not retract them – claim to misread what I said about Aid getting into Gaza when the evidence is clear that you built your false claim over a period of posts – all the while claiming I am pathetic?

    Sorry dude, you deserve to be laughed at. If you hadn't tried to claim an honest mistake (one mistake in one post would have been enough but repeating that over a series of posts?) I would happily have left it at that.

    On the “assault weapons” link – I've used the search engine and it identifies this thread – it just doesn't show you the actual post – the old version of the forum used to.

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Here a UK citizen gives his account of what he experienced. For us Brits perhaps we should be asking why he was not visited by British Embassy personnel

    Kidnapped by Israel, forsaken by Britain | Al Jazeera Blogs


    this:

    What I will write in this entry is fact, every letter of it, none of it is opinion, none of it is analysis, I will leave that to you, the reader.
    followed by this:

    Dozens of speed boats carrying about 15-20 masked Israeli soldiers, armed to the teeth surrounded the Mavi Marmara which was carrying 600 or so unarmed civilians. Two helicopters at a time hovered above the vessel. Commandos on board the choppers joined the firing, using live ammunition, before any of the soldiers had descended onto the ship.
    thats just absurd, but you can keep holding a grip on lies
    Ido R.

    “Messi may have four Golden Balls, but I don’t have to get on a box to buy a chocolate bar in a vending machine” - Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    They were delivering aid, they also aimed to raise the issue of the Gaza blockade and with IDF help they succeeded.
    With the help of the violent mob and pure propaganda, sure.
    Let us not fool ourselves here, however, they were not doing anything for the sake of aiding Gazan people.
    If that was the case then clearly they'll simply agree to the Israeli offer to end this peacefully and let Israel deliver the humanitarian aid.
    Certainly they wouldn't have to lie about soldiers attacking them and them simply being unarmed innocent peaceful activists, certainly that's not the case here.
    You can't back your claim the protesters lied
    That's where you're ****ing wrong. They have stated that Israeli soldiers were not attacked, and that they came on board shooting.
    because there's no way of verifying their claims unless their recording devices are released by the IDF – similarly, I can't claim they did beyond what they have reported to international journalists.
    Yeah, just like I can't prove that God does not exist.
    However by taking those activists' words for facts, for things that you know are true and are backed up with evidence, you are simply labeling yourself as an irrational person, which makes it a good thing that you oppose Israel over this.
    Lies have been told on both sides, including on this thread. This includes a claim that the flotilla protesters even had semi automatic weapons. However, I see no point in further posting interviews with the protesters about the violence against them on the other ships – you are simply no more than a spokesperson for the IDF. It's all clearly lies by the BBC and every other organisation that isn't approved by the Israeli Govt or yourself.
    The flotila activists have taken pistols from the soldiers and have opened fire on them with that.
    There were two soldiers suffering gunshots.
    However you are wrong when you, with all of your hatred towards the Israeli state, claim that I'm a spokesman for the IDF.
    I am definitely not, I am a spokesman for truth and the truth is at the highest of my interests.
    You have made truth to be your enemy, and I am here to expose the absurdness of your claims and statements.
    I was asking for clarification. There is a difference between “clarification” and “accusation.” Anyhow, your words in that post were obviously meaningless then. Thank you for clarifying.
    Apparently you believe that if my words were directed towards the activists and not you, then they are meaningless.
    How bizarre. Are you suffering from some form of narcissism?
    Oh yeah, just as I should take your simplistic denial? There are no examples of protester video left anywhere as their equipment has been confiscated. That leaves us by default with IDF versions of the “truth.”
    I do not deny anything, I am referring to that which does not exist at the realm of truth as what it is, and I am referring to your claim that their words are facts to be rhetorical and ridiculously irrational.
    Oh, so it's paradise then! Why ever must the UN be wasting time trying to feed such people? I'm actually surprised the israeli population aren't falling over themselves to get into such a paradise. I mean, if Netanyahu himself writes a glowing recommendation of the restaurant – who am I to argue different?
    Netanyahu didn't write any recommendation, you're proving yourself to be a reality-disconnected irrational person even more with every comment.
    That restaurant is however located in the Gaza Strip, and I find your brainwashed opinion that Gaza is the worst place in the world to be quite delusional.
    You are this forums' own “Gerald Steinberg” – simply a spokesperson for the IDF. You think that posting a link to Roots and claiming earlier that you see loads of fat / obese kids in Gaza (Apocalypse propaganda) negates that approximately 80% are borderline suffering (Oxfam / UN / Savethechildren / UN sources on the ground)
    I know of Gaza's situation way better than what you hear about from the media.
    Seems to me like you'd claim anyone who exposes your words as false to be a spokesman for the IDF. You've already lost it.
    A bit rich to accuse me of poor reading comprehension but then you chose to ignore my explanation to others – I will check back but I remember saying the threat was more psychological: anyhow – why if the security systems are so good against rockets that are as likely to land in the middle of the desert has Israel instead invested in “Iron Dome?”
    Many rockets don't land in the desert, but in population centers.
    Thousands actually.
    So how come we don't have thousands of deaths?
    Because the only deaths occur when someone is taking too long to get into the shelter, which is quite rare considering the alarms and security systems.
    Israel has already developed the Iron Dome, it's currently in the production phase.
    Never mind – keep up with the insults, it shows that you have nothing new to offer when you start misquoting me and I stand by what I originally wrote. I note you've abandoned the “nuclear weapon” argument?
    No, the nukes analogy still stands.
    A nuclear weapon being taken out while it's not damaging anyone doesn't mean that it doesn't have the potential to harm anyone.
    A rocket not killing anyone because they're all in the shelters doesn't mean that it doesn't have the potentiality to kill anyone.
    It's a ridiculous attempt at propaganda.
    You do spot the incongruity of your own oxymoron? You ask me to stop personal attacks but have used words like “pathetic”, “trollish,” “buffoon,” etc in replies to me. Not to mention hoping to claim I'm anti-semitcic when Zyphlin broke cover to ask me for clarification a page or so ago. You continue to use language I haven't used against you and claim I am the one making personal attacks..
    I did what?
    I believe when Zyphlin asked the reason for your statement I've simply said that he knows what the reason is.
    Now why would you assume that I was claiming you're an anti-Semite if you didn't find it an obvious implication from your words, yourself?
    That's just too ****ing hilarious.
    Yes, I was deeply wounded.
    So were the soldiers that were nearly murdered by the precious peaceful activists you choose to protect.
    And I still repeat that I explained way earlier in the thread that Reuters AND other sources showed that opinion is divided across many international experts. You found one source that backs your version – fine, I found some that explained that opinions differ.
    Your irrationality is showing.
    Reuters, a notable, famous, neutral, credible news agency has stated, without any doubts, that the only conclusion right now is that Israel was completely within its rights.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-08-10 at 03:55 AM.
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