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Thread: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

  1. #1201
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    He was on board a jihadist owned and operated ship, he should have kept better company.
    Do you have any evidence to support this theory? Or is the term jihadist coined to every anti-israeli organization?

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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    There is nothing peaceful about running a blockcade and attacking with flash grenades, knives and pipes.

    Those are the little details you keep glossing over.
    The boats were on a humanitarian mission. Five times Free Gaza arrived in Gaza with small boats and they were allowed entry despite having, according to them, being told they would be killed. I have said all this already. On the next 3 or 4 visits they were not allowed to deliver their aid and, according to them, were severely beaten by the Israelis. According to them it was not being allowed to deliver their items plus the beatings which made them decide to bring a very big cargo and fleet. Of course with Gaza not being allowed to build since the last war, building materials were of prime importance.

    My position is the same as it is on all things. When Margaret Thatcher allowed the storming of a plane with hostages on it resulting in deaths, I was appalled. Now that situation was hostages. That was not a peaceful protest. As it happens, this approach did stop the hostage taking.

    Israel is applying a similar approach to peaceful protesters. That is the difference.

    What happened when Israel stormed the boat is as yet unclear, passengers giving different accounts to the Israelis. However even on boats where there was no violence towards Israeli's, passengers are complaining of beatings and being humiliated and where people have died they have complained that medics on the boat were not allowed to accompany the injured.

    This was a peaceful protest met with a pretty violent response.

    Israel no doubt was wanting to teach the protesters, just as Thatcher taught Terrorists, that their lives would be in danger if they tried peaceful protest. According to Free Gaza, Israel had told them they would be killed from the very first time they brought a little boat in.

    Peaceful protesters are a nuisance to a country. They intend on being a nuisance to that country. However to respond to that in ways that do not respect the lives of the protesters is imo an over reaction. It shows that peaceful protest is not allowed.



    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post

    Still waiting for you to answer my question:

    If aid was the goal why did they ignore both offers by Egypt and Israel to offload their supplies?

    Care to answer it this time?
    Cassandra has already answered that question and my response was in your response to Casandra's response. I also have already said elsewhere in this thread that there is also a political component to what they are doing, that is to bring the situation of Gaza to the world attention. This they have done. I understand that Israel is allowing clothes in for the first time in three years so they have clearly achieved something, all be it a small amount at the moment.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Oh christ cut the crap will you?
    What is so crappy about it?
    The father is proud of his son that became a martyr, killed after attacking an Israeli soldier.
    That's quite sick, and you should see this as well.
    Same goes for the three dead Turks that were filmed stating that they wish to become Shahids.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Do you have any evidence to support this theory? Or is the term jihadist coined to every anti-israeli organization?
    IHH is known to have ties to al-Qaeda, the Global Jihad and Hamas, according to the Danish Institute for International Studies.

    Anyway Kaya, I'm still waiting for the basing of your claims about two British journalists being killed in the interception.
    I thought all of the dead were Turkish? (And one Turkish-origin American)
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-04-10 at 07:15 AM.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    The boats were on a humanitarian mission. Five times Free Gaza arrived in Gaza with small boats and they were allowed entry despite having, according to them, being told they would be killed. I have said all this already. On the next 3 or 4 visits they were not allowed to deliver their aid and, according to them, were severely beaten by the Israelis. According to them it was not being allowed to deliver their items plus the beatings which made them decide to bring a very big cargo and fleet. Of course with Gaza not being allowed to build since the last war, building materials were of prime importance.
    According to them being the key word in the above passage.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMama View Post
    Reading through parts of this thread and other news sources it seems that anti-Zionist feelings have clouded the arguments in a haze of bias. If Israel was viewed in a historical and objective context and if it was treated like any other western country, all this would be much simpler.

    But maybe that is just me.
    No, it's absolutely not just you.
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Oh christ cut the crap will you?
    Please enlighten me. What exactly is your point....??



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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    I just read this article Gaza flotilla: Israel accused of ‘sabotaging’ Irish aid ship Rachel Corrie - Telegraph

    And one line I really liked is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    Audrey Bomse of the Free Gaza Movement said: “The situation is we lost all contact with the boat.

    “We assume this was sabotage by the Israelis."

    She went on: “As a result of these threats, we're going to pull Rachel Corrie into a port, add more high-profile people on board, and insist that journalists from around the world also come with us.
    I wonder if anyone has tried this hard to free tibet...Or darfur...Or Cuba..ect..

    Its just interesting thats all...the poor palastian's in gaza are just a tool for condeming a nation that has litterly done all possible actions to keep it's citizens safe and neighbors citizens safe, even at the cost of its own Soldiers ...
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal?

    LONDON (Reuters) - Israel has said it will continue a naval blockade of the Gaza Strip despite growing global pressure to lift the siege after a navy raid on a Turkish ferry carrying aid killed nine activists this week.

    What is the legality of the blockade and did Israel's intervention breach international law? Below are some questions and answers on the issue:

    CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?

    Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."

    Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.

    "On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.

    WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?

    Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a "territorial sea" of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed "innocent passage" through such waters.

    There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the "contiguous zone" over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.

    "However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the "high seas" or international waters," Roche said.

    The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.

    Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say.

    CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?

    Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.

    "If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.

    Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.

    Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.

    "But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response," Kraska said.

    The use of force may also have other repercussions.

    "While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.

    "However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."

    OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL'S RAID "PIRACY." WAS IT?

    No, as under international law it was considered a state action.

    "Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest," Kraska said.

    HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SHIPPING DISRUPTIONS AFTER THE RAID?

    None so far but the International Chamber of Shipping (ICS), an association which represents 75 percent of the world's merchant fleet, has expressed "deep concern" over the boarding by Israeli forces, arguing that merchant ships have a right to safe passage and freedom of navigation in international waters.

    "These fundamental principles of international law must always be upheld by all of the world's nations," the ICS said.
    Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal? | Reuters
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMama View Post
    Reading through parts of this thread and other news sources it seems that anti-Zionist feelings have clouded the arguments in a haze of bias. If Israel was viewed in a historical and objective context and if it was treated like any other western country, all this would be much simpler.

    But maybe that is just me.
    Actually, you have tipped your hand and revealed your own fuzzy thinking by using the term, "anti-zionist"- that term, and "anti-semite" are the usual knee jerk calumnies designed to stifle discussion and used by those who have nothing useful to say.

    By almost any measure, the Israeli action was giant cock-up that will undermine Israel's interests- even if you believe it was legitimate act.

  10. #1210
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    Re: Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMama View Post
    Reading through parts of this thread and other news sources it seems that anti-Zionist feelings have clouded the arguments in a haze of bias. If Israel was viewed in a historical and objective context and if it was treated like any other western country, all this would be much simpler.

    But maybe that is just me.
    To watch raw footage of this pack of animals lynching that first soldier as he descends and turning around and calling them "humanitarians" is so incredibly Orwellian in nature that it requires an almost unimaginable combination of stupidity and bigotry.

    "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."
    "Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."
    Last edited by Gardener; 06-04-10 at 09:17 AM.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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