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Thread: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    In the other thread where you posted about that Convention, I explained why you're incorrect in claiming that it applies.
    I have already responded to that thread, but will show you exactly what this Convention applies to. Keep in mind Israel is a signatory to this Convention:

    Article 2

    1. This Convention does not apply to:

    (a) a warship; or

    (b) a ship owned or operated by a State when being used as a naval auxiliary or for customs or police purposes; or

    (c) a ship which has been withdrawn from navigation or laid up.

    2. Nothing in this Convention affects the immunities of warships and other government ships operated for non-commercial purposes.
    The Gaza aid flotilla does not meet any of the requirements of 1a, 1b, or 1c. As such, the Convention applies to aid vessels on humantiarian relief efforts.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    I have already responded to that thread, but will show you exactly what this Convention applies to. Keep in mind Israel is a signatory to this Convention:

    The Gaza aid flotilla does not meet any of the requirements of 1a, 1b, or 1c. As such, the Convention applies to aid vessels on humantiarian relief efforts.
    Go back to that thread, I explained the problem with your interpretation.

    The reason that this convention is not applicable to this situation is not because of Art. II, it's because of Art. III.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Go back to that thread, I explained the problem with your interpretation.

    The reason that this convention is not applicable to this situation is not because of Art. II, it's because of Art. III.
    Article 3 is what the offence Israel commited, You are obviously confused.

    They took over control of another ship (Article 3) in international waters. I suggest rereading Article 3 to better understand it.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Article 3 is what the offence Israel commited, You are obviously confused.

    They took over control of another ship (Article 3) in international waters. I suggest rereading Article 3 to better understand it.
    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. This is basic legal interpretation, as I have painstakingly explained to you in the other thread.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. This is basic legal interpretation, as I have painstakingly explained to you in the other thread.
    That's why I'm doing my Masters of Law currently at University of Houston. International law was less than 2 semesters ago. I think I have a firmer grasp on legal interpretation that you do.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    That's why I'm doing my Masters of Law currently at University of Houston. International law was less than 2 semesters ago. I think I have a firmer grasp on legal interpretation that you do.
    Right. Well, best of luck with that.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's fine, and you're absolutely entitled to think that. I don't have a strong feeling either way on the moral blame issue, as both are responsible for plenty of questionable incidents. I'm responding to arguments about legality because I have strong views on the propriety of individual state action in the international system, not because I really have any sympathies for the Israeli or Palestinian position.
    As you have noted elsewhere, international law lacks teeth unless someone is willing to do something about it. The only reason why Israeli sovereignty according to its current expanding borders is accepted and defended is because the Western powers are behind it, and no other reason. Israel would not exist without U.S. military aid. The legality simply stems from might makes right, and that's all... and not because there is some greater moral argument happening here.

    I do believe that both parties are irrational actors which is why I wish the West would withdraw its support from both of these savages but oh well. State actors do what they do.

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    That's why I'm doing my Masters of Law currently at University of Houston. International law was less than 2 semesters ago. I think I have a firmer grasp on legal interpretation that you do.
    I took international law classes in both undergrad and graduate school, and that does not make me an expert. You of all people (studying law) ought to realize that there are two sides to almost every case, both grounded in some form of the law.

    In graduate school my teacher started the class by saying "Why is it important to study international law." The answer: "So you can ignore it effectively."

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    Re: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I took international law classes in both undergrad and graduate school, and that does not make me an expert. You of all people (studying law) ought to realize that there are two sides to almost every case, both grounded in some form of the law.
    This is absolutely true as a general principle, but this isn't really one of those cases. The language of the convention is exceedingly clear in that unlawfulness is an element of a violation.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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