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Thread: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

  1. #71
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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitwolfy View Post
    I'm wondering how many of these folks who voted him in really regret their decision. I've been gone awhile and my curiousity is genuine.
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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It will matter in November, Rasmussen polls likely voters. We have to see how it shakes out.
    I agree, I'm just saying it doesn't matter now, but yes it will matter during general elections.

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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    I agree, I'm just saying it doesn't matter now, but yes it will matter during general elections.
    Gotcha. That makes sense.
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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Link?......
    FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Health Care Polls: Opinion Gap or Information Gap?

    Unless you meant the McCain thing.

    What we see is that most individual components of the bill are popular -- in some cases, quite popular. But awareness lags behind. Only 61 percent are aware that the bill bans denials of coverage for pre-existing conditions. Only 42 percent know that it bans lifetime coverage limits. Only 58 percent are aware that it set up insurance exchanges. Just 44 percent know that it closes the Medicare donut hole -- and so on and so forth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah, I remember reading that and being disappointed in Nate Silver, because usually I like him but that is complete smug, elitist, BS spin. One, it doesn't poll likely voters, who are much more likely to have a higher awareness of such issues. Two, the bill is so huge and complicated that nobody has the capacity to sufficiently understand it - especially not after just a one-sentence blurb of each component. Three, if I like every component in a sandwich except the turd in the middle, that doesn't mean I want to eat the sandwich. Four, according to that study, the bill's opponents and supporters both have the same level of awareness. And I could go on.


    Most importantly, if the public can be manipulated that easily, democracy doesn't work, period.
    Last edited by Dav; 05-25-10 at 06:25 PM.

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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    One, it doesn't poll likely voters, who are much more likely to have a higher awareness of such issues.
    It... polled awareness too. Awareness is low. Also I disagree that a "likely voter" is more likely to be sufficiently aware of the bill's contents. Plenty of "likely voters" listen to Rush Limbaugh and believe him when he says the bill is a SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER. They wont investigate beyond that.

    Two, the bill is so huge and complicated that nobody has the capacity to sufficiently understand it - especially not after just a one-sentence blurb of each component.
    Yeah that's kinda the problem. Polling people who don't understand the bill isn't going to give you a meaningful answer.

    Three, if I like every component in a sandwich except the turd in the middle, that doesn't mean I want to eat the sandwich. Four, according to that study, the bill's opponents and supporters both have the same level of awareness. And I could go on.
    Yes. And that awareness is low. When explained, the support goes up. More awareness brings more support. Interesting don't you think?

    Most importantly, if the public can be manipulated that easily, democracy doesn't work, period.
    Yep. When people are told a few hundred times "OBAMACARE = SOCIALIST RATIONING GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER" they start to hate it, despite not knowing a thing about it. They'll vote Republican to get rid of something they don't understand.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #77
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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It... polled awareness too. Awareness is low. Also I disagree that a "likely voter" is more likely to be sufficiently aware of the bill's contents. Plenty of "likely voters" listen to Rush Limbaugh and believe him when he says the bill is a SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER. They wont investigate beyond that.
    63% of likely voters don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. And awareness may be low, but only about as low as voter turnout. The voters that turn out are almost definitely more informed on the issue than people who don't vote are - that's just common sense. It makes sense that a lot of people not aware/interested in political news would be the ones who don't vote.

    And why won't they investigate beyond that? The people whose minds might change on the issue would mostly be moderates. Do you honestly think that moderates would use Rush Limbaugh as their sole source of information?


    Yeah that's kinda the problem. Polling people who don't understand the bill isn't going to give you a meaningful answer.
    Yes it does, because we live in a democracy, and what the people think matters no matter what you want.

    And if you don't want to poll people who don't understand the bill, then Senators shouldn't have voted on it, because as I said (and you apparently agreed with this), nobody, even them, could understand it. Actually, did you even read my post?

    And you ignored the point about the one-sentence blurb the study provided.

    Yes. And that awareness is low. When explained, the support goes up. More awareness brings more support. Interesting don't you think?
    That not only skips over one of my points, but blatantly mischaracterizes the study. Support does not go up when the bill is "explained" (in one-sentence blurbs). It is simply found that many of the provisions are more popular than the bill itself. The study did not measure any change in support after an "explanation".

    Yep.
    So you think democracy doesn't work, period. Interesting.

    When people are told a few hundred times "OBAMACARE = SOCIALIST RATIONING GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER" they start to hate it, despite not knowing a thing about it. They'll vote Republican to get rid of something they don't understand.
    So you think that conservatives are the only ones who used hyperbole and mischaracterization in that debate. That's just plain not true. More importantly, if conservatives are so dumb that according to you, they just hear socialism and don't need to hear anything else (which is smug condescending BS, but never mind that), it doesn't matter, because they are conservatives and would likely oppose the bill anyways. Remember, the so-called popular provisions didn't have unanimous support; basically all of them had at least 40% opposed. There's your Limbaugh crowd for you, the people who oppose not only the bill, but the provisions. The people who approve of many of the provisions, but not the bill itself, would have to be more moderate than that. Take Scott Brown - he approves of things like the public option, but is against the bill because of its cost. I suspect that many such people are the same. Keep in mind that it's probably only about 15%-ish that approve of most of the provisions, but not of the bill itself.

    Anyways, if you hate democracy so much - as you just said you did (again I wonder if you were even reading my post) - maybe you should move to some place with less of it?
    Last edited by Dav; 05-25-10 at 11:15 PM.

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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    yep..it's very unfortunate that people refuse to educate themselves about this bill, instead believing whatever talk radio feeds them.
    If people were truly educated Obama never would have been in office to sign that nasty bill into law



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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Anyways, if you hate democracy so much - as you just said you did (again I wonder if you were even reading my post) - maybe you should move to some place with less of it?
    Yeah... so piss off I never said that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah... so piss off I never said that.
    Yeah... so read my posts before you respond to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by you
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Most importantly, if the public can be manipulated that easily, democracy doesn't work, period.
    Yep.

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