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Thread: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

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    GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    ''The UN Secretariat has repeatedly emphasized the proven benefits of having more female peacekeepers, especially in regions where sexual violence has been or still is a serious problem, but there are hiccups.
    : :
    A lot of member states are beginning to understand that when it comes to peacekeeping missions, you really do need to have both women and men in the military and police equally represented ''
    Quote from IRIN Global | GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed* | Asia East Africa Global Great Lakes Horn of Africa Latin America and Caribbean Middle East Southern Africa West Africa | Afghanistan Angola Bangladesh Burkina Faso Burundi Benin Botswana DR

    Is it pure sexism, which is creating the shortage of female peace keepers, despite the advantages to having more female peace keepers? Or is being a peace keeper not an attractive option to women?
    Last edited by Mell; 05-22-10 at 06:19 PM.

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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    ''The UN Secretariat has repeatedly emphasized the proven benefits of having more female peacekeepers, especially in regions where sexual violence has been or still is a serious problem, but there are hiccups.
    : :
    A lot of member states are beginning to understand that when it comes to peacekeeping missions, you really do need to have both women and men in the military and police equally represented ''
    Quote from IRIN Global | GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed* | Asia East Africa Global Great Lakes Horn of Africa Latin America and Caribbean Middle East Southern Africa West Africa | Afghanistan Angola Bangladesh Burkina Faso Burundi Benin Botswana DR

    Is it pure sexism, which is creating the shortage of female peace keepers, despite the advantages to having more female peace keepers? Or is being a peace keeper not an attractive option to women?

    Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 05-22-10 at 07:03 PM.
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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
    Men have the capacity for a higher maximum muscle mass (total strength) then women.

    Women tend to have stronger heart muscles and have higher maximum endurance levels.

    If you have a man and woman at the same physical level for their bodies lift the same max weight then the man will likely win. If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.

    In terms of combat training and carrying gear, women could most likely carry the same gear as a man for a longer period of time without fatiguing but are limited on how much they can carry.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 05-22-10 at 08:24 PM.
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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Men have the capacity for a higher maximum muscle mass (total strength) then women.

    Women tend to have stronger heart muscles and have higher maximum endurance levels.

    If you have a man and woman at the same physical level for their bodies lift the same max weight then the man will likely win. If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.

    In terms of combat training and carrying gear, women could most likely carry the same gear as a man for a longer period of time without fatiguing but are limited on how much they can carry.

    Sorry, that last bit is horse****. It's also contradictory in that you're saying they could carry the same gear, then you say their limited in how much they can carry. The loadouts for combat infantry these days can get incredibly heavy.

    If you're comparing Joe Average and Helga the Olympian, yes. Not men and women at the same level of conditioning.

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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.
    10k mens WR -27:01
    half marathon WR Mens-58:23
    full marathon WR Mens -2:03:59
    Men's 3000M steeple chase WR- 7:53:63

    10K womens WR -30:21
    half marathon WR women- 1:06:25
    full marathon womens WR- 2:15:25
    3000m womens steeplechase WR- 8:58:81

    This is just a few.....

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics]List of world records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Sure Paula Radcliffe would kick my ass at a marathon, 10K whatever. But in a side by side comparison of people in a similar physical condition that train for the same events, it is clear that males hold an edge in endurance as well.

    The only area where I would agree that women enjoy a physical advantage-generally sex wide- over their male counter parts is flexibility.
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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
    Quite right. Muscles and endurance are peacekeeping necessities...




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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    10k mens WR -27:01
    half marathon WR Mens-58:23
    full marathon WR Mens -2:03:59
    Men's 3000M steeple chase WR- 7:53:63

    10K womens WR -30:21
    half marathon WR women- 1:06:25
    full marathon womens WR- 2:15:25
    3000m womens steeplechase WR- 8:58:81

    This is just a few.....

    List of world records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sure Paula Radcliffe would kick my ass at a marathon, 10K whatever. But in a side by side comparison of people in a similar physical condition that train for the same events, it is clear that males hold an edge in endurance as well.

    The only area where I would agree that women enjoy a physical advantage-generally sex wide- over their male counter parts is flexibility.

    Good post, and thanks for the stats.

    I wanted to note that I'm not saying there isn't a place for women in the military, or even in combat roles. The differences in the stats WI posted were modest differences; women at the highest peak of physical conditioning can get very close to performance levels of men at the highest peak of physical conditioning, in almost everything except upper body strength.

    Upper body strength probably isn't crucial in flying a military aircraft, operating a military vehicle, or any number of other roles.

    There are certain roles where it is rather crucial though. Infantry, especially units like Recon and Ranger on certain types of missions, hump some incredibly heavy loads these days: core torso strength, and shoulder strength, would be crucial in those specialties. While there are probably some small number of truly exceptional women who could handle that, it seems inevitable that the % would be much smaller than the percent of men who could be trained to cope with it.

    Similar issues would exist where rapidly lifting and moving heavy weights by hand are required. Loading heavy ordnance for an artillery piece would be one example.

    I have no objection to women in the military, and no objection to women serving in whatever specialty they are capable of qualifying for. I just want us to be objective and pragmatic about it: fixed standards that everyone has to meet for a given MOS regardless of gender.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-23-10 at 09:52 AM.

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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Quite right. Muscles and endurance are peacekeeping necessities...



    I don't have a very high opinion of UN "peacekeepers" in general, either.

    In fact you'd be hard pressed to have a lower opinion of the UN as a whole than I do.

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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
    Obviously there are other requirements besides physical strength. Otherwise,the UN would not be asking for more female peace keepers.

    I can see what the UN mean by the presence of female soldiers being comforting to women who have been victims of sexual violence. More male only soldiers appearing on the scene likely make them nervous, because they would be unsure if these are good or bad. They likely have problems with trusting any male strangers, after the experiences some of them went through.

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    Re: GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Obviously there are other requirements besides physical strength. Otherwise,the UN would not be asking for more female peace keepers.

    I can see what the UN mean by the presence of female soldiers being comforting to women who have been victims of sexual violence. More male only soldiers appearing on the scene likely make them nervous, because they would be unsure if these are good or bad. They likely have problems with trusting any male strangers, after the experiences some of them went through.
    I have to wonder what military experience those who are asking for more females have.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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