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Thread: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

    All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. - Thomas Paine

    The christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun. - Thomas Paine, An Essay on the Origin of Free-Masonry (1803-1805)

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    Jefferson and his protégé. A drunk and slave owner and his pupil.

    We should definitely listen to them.

    When it came to political thinking he was good, as a man, not so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801. So why would he send it to his attorney?

    He sent it to his attorney for suggestions with his wording before he sent it to the Baptists.

    It's very simple.

    Jefferson sent the first letter below, together with the Danbury Baptist letter, the second letter below, to his attorney general asking for his attorney general's opinion on the Danbury letter. If you will finally read the first letter, you will see the purpose of the second letter.

    This is getting comical at this stage, but for your reading pleasure I have posted the two letters you have been arguing about for days, but you still don't know why you're arguing about them.



    Thomas Jefferson to Levi Lincoln, January 1, 1802

    Jan 1, 1802.

    Averse to receive addresses, yet unable to prevent them, I have generally endeavored to turn them to some account, by making them the occasion, by way of answer, of sowing useful truths & principles among the people, which might germinate and become rooted among their political tenets. The Baptist address, now enclosed, admits of a condemnation of the alliance between Church and State, under the authority of the Constitution. It furnishes an occasion, too, which I have long wished to find, of saying why I do not proclaim fastings & thanksgivings, as my predecessors did.

    The address, to be sure, does not point at this, & it's introduction is awkward. But I foresee no opportunity of doing it more pertinently. I know it will give great offence to the New England clergy; but the advocate of religious freedom is to expect neither peace nor forgiveness from them. Will you be so good as to examine the answer, and suggest any alterations which might prevent an ill effect, or promote a good one among the people? You understand the temper of those in the North, and can weaken it, therefore, to their stomachs: it is at present seasoned to the Southern taste only. I would ask the favor of you to return it, with the address, in the course of the day or evening. Health & affection.



    Thomas Jefferson to Levi Lincoln, January 1, 1802



    To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

    Gentlemen

    The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

    I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

    (signed) Thomas Jefferson
    Jan.1.1802.



    Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Basically the letter says he did not want to offend the baptist even though the language mite condemn an "alliance" of church and state, which would have been unconstitutional.

    You are reading far more into it than it actually says, just like the Constitution.

    An elective class on the history of the Bible is not an "alliance" of church and state.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-29-10 at 12:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    So why doesn't the Left want American children to learn about the fist black speaker of the house or the first black senators? Why don't they want children learning about blacks who escaped slavery and became prominent public officers?

    Just my theory: It doesn't feed the victim mentality the Left needs in order to sustain political power.

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    I particularly like the addition they made vindicating McCarthyism.

    I'm the first to admit that the sidebars in my childhood textbooks about basically irrelevant people who just happened to be minorities (Crispus Attucks is an excellent example) were...annoying...they're hardly comparable to to this outrageous political pamphlet the Texans are trying to masquerade as a textbook.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Basically the letter says he did not want to offend the baptist even though the language mite condemn an "alliance" of church and state, which would have been unconstitutional.

    You are reading far more into it than it actually says, just like the Constitution.

    An elective class on the history of the Bible is not an "alliance" of church and state.
    Dude, finally you read the letter. Very good.

    And I agree an elective class on the history of the Bible is fine, as long as they review the books of the other important religions too.

    If the elective class only studies the Bible, then the agenda is obviously promotion of the Bible.
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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Dude, finally you read the letter. Very good.

    And I agree an elective class on the history of the Bible is fine, as long as they review the books of the other important religions too.

    If the elective class only studies the Bible, then the agenda is obviously promotion of the Bible.
    Right, right, and any class on European history must also cover South African and Mongolian history as well A chemistry class must go over mechanical physics and political science, also. According to tryreading, a collision repair class MUST also cover desil mechanics and automotive electronics. According to tryreading, a basic first aid class must also cover pera-rescue and animal husbandry. If you want to take a wood shop class, then that wood shop class had better give equal time to welding.

    The law clearly states that if enough people want to form the same class about any other religious text that they can, so your requirement is already met...there's just no demand for that product.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-29-10 at 10:12 PM.

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So why doesn't the Left want American children to learn about the fist black speaker of the house or the first black senators? Why don't they want children learning about blacks who escaped slavery and became prominent public officers?

    Just my theory: It doesn't feed the victim mentality the Left needs in order to sustain political power.
    American children do learn about that stuff.

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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, right, and any class on European history must also cover South African and Mongolian history as well A chemistry class must go over mechanical physics and political science, also. According to tryreading, a collision repair class MUST also cover desil mechanics and automotive electronics. According to tryreading, a basic first aid class must also cover pera-rescue and animal husbandry. If you want to take a wood shop class, then that wood shop class had better give equal time to welding.

    The law clearly states that if enough people want to form the same class about any other religious text that they can, so your requirement is already met...there's just no demand for that product.
    The analogies don't apply. None of those areas is specifically mentioned in the Constitution concerning promotion/non-promotion by the state.

    You can see the direction in which the Texas board is going, that they are pushing a socially conservative agenda. They are Christian people that want to further their religion through kids in school. These are selfish, controlling people who want their religion promoted using public money. A portion of Texas's public school money comes from the federal government, and none of this should be used to push a religion, or any religion. I know, it's elective, right? And ID isn't creationism...

    It's funny and strange to me that in Texas, in some straightforward subjects like history (McCarthy, Jefferson), they want to teach fiction. These people are not honest folks. They are underhanded, sneaking in addenda/language at the last minute. They need to be watched.
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    Re: Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    The analogies don't apply.
    Accept that they apply.


    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    None of those areas is specifically mentioned in the Constitution concerning promotion/non-promotion by the state.
    Oh, you will enjoy learning that the class is an elective and is not oriented around students practicing any religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    You can see the direction in which the Texas board is going, that they are pushing a socially conservative agenda.
    Right, I fully acknowledge this. Texas is pushing a Conservative agenda, and that's a good thing because Conservatism is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    They are Christian people that want to further their religion through kids in school.
    The law clearly states that other classes regarding other religious texts are just as permissible so long as the minimum enrollment number required for any class is met. Personally I would love a class on Hebrew which used the Torah and a class on the Rig Veda. Here in SD I would be open to sending my sons to a class on the oral traditions of the Lakota and/or Suix.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    These are selfish, controlling people who want their religion promoted using public money.


    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    A portion of Texas's public school money comes from the federal government, and none of this should be used to push a religion, or any religion.
    No one is pushing any religion. The Bible is not a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    I know, it's elective, right?
    Oh, then why do speak as though you didn't know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    And ID isn't creationism...
    Young Earth Creationism isn't in the Bile. It's an interpretation which I, a Christian, argue against.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    It's funny and strange to me that in Texas, in some straightforward subjects like history (McCarthy, Jefferson), they want to teach fiction.
    So any fictional text should be left out of the curriculum regardless of it's cultural significance? I confess I didn't enjoy Shakespeare...

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    These people are not honest folks. They are underhanded, sneaking in addenda/language at the last minute. They need to be watched.
    You have that right, they need to be watched, and you need to learn from them. Conservatives know better than liberals, categorically. Whether Conservative Democrat or Conservative Republican, our rendering of history is accurate, and our economic and social policies have been proven to help a people flourish when implemented. Liberal policies fail every single time their tried; take Social Security and Segregation as examples of failed Liberal policies.

    Most of the people who volunteer to serve in the military which protects you are Christians, so you might want to curb your bias against the book their ideals are recorded in.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-29-10 at 11:54 PM.

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