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Thread: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    When reasonable suspicion means that you are brown and speak Spanish, Yes that is wrong.
    I dont see that in the legislation.

    Can you show it to me?
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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    When reasonable suspicion means that you are brown and speak Spanish, Yes that is wrong.
    Thats not what the laws says

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I interpret it as saying: reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal alien.

    So, deport away AZ. No one is stopping you yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    When reasonable suspicion means that you are brown and speak Spanish, Yes that is wrong.
    .........

    My head's going to ****ing explode.

    Look, people, seriously....please....logic and common sense is your friend. Stop running from it.

    Reasonable Suspicion existed prior to this law. It didn't magically come from the world of faries and unicorns (otherwise known as "where Rev gets his avatars") to land within the Arizona Law. Its a known, long standing, legal standard for police officers used the country over that is a step below "probable cause" that allows officers to take slightly more forward action but not actually arrest based on it.

    For example, Reasonable Suspicion must be had by an officer to be able to frisk a suspect. Now, ask yourself this: "Is it legal for a police officer to walk up to a random black man and begin to frisk him because he's black"? If the answer is "No, of course not" you're correct. However if you go look at the laws or statutes governing frisking you will not find a section that says "It is illegal for an officer to frisk a suspect simply because said suspect appears to be African American". See, the FEDERAL government has found that race can not be a part of the reasoning for reasonable suspicion, and as such it is unconstitutional which essentially means its illegal. So going "I asked him for papers because he's mexican looking" is absolutely no more legal or different than going "I frisked him because he looked black".

    Reasonable Suspicion must use specific and articulable facts and inferences, as the officer may be required to relate these to a superior such as a higher officer or a judge. Going "um, he's brown" is NOT a legitimate articulated fact or inference allowable under reasonable suspicion, so using such would cause the case to fall apart, open up the officer for possible punishment, and set the department or state up for possible legal issues.

    You can interpret it that way if you wish Mickey, that's fine. It just means you're wrong, and you're making that interpretation from a stance of ignorance about what the standard is and how it works. Reasonable suspicion IS wrong when it means that you are brown and speak Spanish...good thing that's NOT what it means.

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by explodedheadguy
    Reasonable Suspicion must use specific and articulable facts and inferences
    Do you have any examples for the above? Just make up some hypothetical please.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 05-24-10 at 01:49 PM.
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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What does that matter? There are illegal Russians all over the US and they are white and don't speak English blowing your pathetic theory away.

    Until you can accept illegals are not only Hispanic you will never understand the problem.
    If you have ever been to Washington State or Oregon it is almost like you have to speak Russian just to survive. They are everywhere.

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Do you have any examples for the above? Just make up some hypothetical please.
    Sure....

    I will point out I am not a police officer and this would be my best guess based on the information I've seen. I'm sure someone that's an officer may be able to give a better view.

    An officer pulls over a car speeding 5 miles over the speed limit. He requests liscense and registration which is absolutely typical for stops like this. The individual in the car can not produce a liscense. Driving a vehicle without a liscense could lead one to reasonable be suspicious that the person may be an illegal alien and thus why he does not possess the ID.

    Lets stay on the street...

    An officer pulls over a moving van type vehicle for a faulty break light on a road known for coyotes. In the process of going up to the window hears noises coming from the back of it. He inquires to the driver as to what cargo he's moving and the driver is evasive. He asks for the rear to be opened and upon doing so discovers a number of individuals huddled together. This is likely enough, I would imagine, to have a reasonable suspicion to ask for papers due to the known coyote route, the evasiveness of the driver in confirming what was in the back of his van, and the large amount of people in a part of a vehicle not meant for human travel.

    Lets move off the street....

    Police recieve a tip from a trustable source that a resturant is paying a large number of their staff under the table and thus violating tax rules. The police enter into the building and sieze his financial records, finding that a number of the individuals present are not being accounted for in their tax filings. One could then likely have a reasonable suspicion that the reason these individuals may be being paid under the table is that they're illegal.

    In each case there is a legitimate, articulatable, reasoning why the officer is asking. In one case the person is driving without a liscense, something relatively easy to access for any citizen. In another case the people were attempting to be hid in the back of a moving van on a known human trafficing route. In the last case the individuals are being paid under the table so as to avoid taxes.

    In all three cases there can be legitiamte reasons why they are not illegal. The person could have just never bothered to get his liscense, the guy is simply helping a family move and the cop made him nervous, the owner of the resturant could simply be extremely greedy. However there is a reasonable suspicion present that they could be illegal and thus they get asked for some form of proof of citizenship.

    This is far different than "You, you're brown, give me your ID."

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Mango View Post
    Besides the obvious instances, reasonable suspicion is still at the discretion of the LEO, hence the key word suspicion. If I, a hispanic, am walking with my white friend and neither of us has our id, which one of us has a greater chance of being detained further in Arizona. [/B]
    Neither one of you..... but you already know that.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Sooo....what are the political ramifications for the Messiah and his corrupt political party when it becomes public knowledge that HIS administration is releasing thousands of known criminals that have been properly and legally arrested by local authorities?
    ****ed?......
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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