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Thread: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

  1. #91
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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    A $50B cash infusion gave the government the right.

    I don't see a problem here. Let's move along.
    That IS the problem. What's to prevent the government from printing 20 Trillion dollars and infusing it in the top 50 fortune 100 company's and doing the same thing? THAT is a problem. I don't want to move along and be shushed - I'd like to see something that absolutely prevents the government from ever gaining, in any circumstance, more than 40% of controlling power in ANY private business - large or small. Another Constitutional amendment perhaps! I'd support it as yet another restriction against government intrusion.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The only one with a say was Obama
    The executive branch has been chartered with the turnaround. Obama is a duly elected official and head of the executive branch. Given that the US government, of which he is CEO, is a majority owner of GM, I guess you can say the CEO of GM is indirectly accountable to him, just as the head of Dairy Queen is indirectly accountable to Warren Buffett.

    I know you understand this, you are just trying to make a point. I, for one, am not outraged as the alternative, IMHO, would have been devastating for Michigan, for most of the automobile supply chain (which is most of the Great Lake states), for defense readiness (erosion of our manufacturing base is a huge threat to our defense capabilities) and for the US economy in general (which in 2009 was on the very edge of collapse). Seems like the deal worked out rather nicely (and the fact that it agitated a few right wing reactionaries along the way were just a bonus).

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That IS the problem. What's to prevent the government from printing 20 Trillion dollars and infusing it in the top 50 fortune 100 company's and doing the same thing? THAT is a problem. I don't want to move along and be shushed - I'd like to see something that absolutely prevents the government from ever gaining, in any circumstance, more than 40% of controlling power in ANY private business - large or small. Another Constitutional amendment perhaps! I'd support it as yet another restriction against government intrusion.
    What's to prevent?? its called the Congress of the United States. They would have to approve such an expenditure. They, BTW, generally report to the people, when they are not reporting to big business.

    I think you understand the distinction between the GM deal and the government becoming a huge hedge fund. There is very, very, very little danger of the doomsday scenario of government buying up the Fortune 50. I would not lose sleep over it.

    BTW, the GM deal was hardly the first time the government invested in private corporations. I don't remember this outrage when the government was bailing out the airline industry just eight years ago.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-18-10 at 07:09 PM.

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    What's to prevent?? its called the Congress of the United States. They would have to approve such an expenditure. They, BTW, generally report to the people, when they are not reporting to big business.
    To prevent government from owning and/or controlling private business. What part of that is unclear? Congress is part of that government.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think you understand the distinction between the GM deal and the government becoming a huge hedge fund. There is very, very, very little danger of the doomsday scenario of government buying up the Fortune 50. I would not lose sleep over it.
    That there is 0.000000001% chance is too much. I don't lose sleep over much but would feel better about further restrictions being placed on our government via another Constitutional amendment, as I stated previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    BTW, the GM deal was hardly the first time the government invested in private corporations. I don't remember this outrage when the government was bailing out the airline industry just eight years ago.
    A bailout and majority ownership are obviously, two distinct and different things.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    A $50B cash infusion gave the government the right. Any workout equity firm would do the same thing. You would question the judgment of a workout firm that did not make the sitting CEO show cause as to why they should not be immediately terminated. That all said, the government is substantially a passive investor.

    Did anyone mention that this last ditch effort paid off, saved thousands of jobs, prevented more spent on unemployment and will result in the treasury getting all of its money back with likely a profit?

    I don't see a problem here. Let's move along.
    Obama is not a company and does not have that right with our money. Nice try but what he did is wrong and the government is not supposed to run private business unless we are becoming a socialist nation through Obama.

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The executive branch has been chartered with the turnaround. Obama is a duly elected official and head of the executive branch. Given that the US government, of which he is CEO, is a majority owner of GM, I guess you can say the CEO of GM is indirectly accountable to him, just as the head of Dairy Queen is indirectly accountable to Warren Buffett.

    I know you understand this, you are just trying to make a point. I, for one, am not outraged as the alternative, IMHO, would have been devastating for Michigan, for most of the automobile supply chain (which is most of the Great Lake states), for defense readiness (erosion of our manufacturing base is a huge threat to our defense capabilities) and for the US economy in general (which in 2009 was on the very edge of collapse). Seems like the deal worked out rather nicely (and the fact that it agitated a few right wing reactionaries along the way were just a bonus).
    The economy was not going to collapse and is not much better now. Nice try but sounds like you are an apologist for Obama

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Obama got rid of the CEO and put in who he wanted. That is not running the company?
    Therefore you think that common stockholders run the company. Do you agree?

    Since you refuse to learn about corporate structure, I'll give you a primer. Stockholders own the firm. They elect the board who then chooses the CEO. With the government owning a massive percent of the stock, it functionally acts the same way.

    Therefore, you believe stockholders run the company? Yes or no?

    "Rather then show how the government is setting line speeds, part suppliers and vacation time, actual running of the company you stick to the asinine argument that they replaced the CEO, which as a shareholder, the government is given the right to, and therefore Obama is running the company. "

    I see you refuse to address that.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The economy was not going to collapse and is not much better now. Nice try but sounds like you are an apologist for Obama
    Okay genius. What industrialized country managed to survive without a financial banking sector?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Therefore you think that common stockholders run the company. Do you agree?

    Since you refuse to learn about corporate structure, I'll give you a primer. Stockholders own the firm. They elect the board who then chooses the CEO. With the government owning a massive percent of the stock, it functionally acts the same way.

    Therefore, you believe stockholders run the company? Yes or no?

    "Rather then show how the government is setting line speeds, part suppliers and vacation time, actual running of the company you stick to the asinine argument that they replaced the CEO, which as a shareholder, the government is given the right to, and therefore Obama is running the company. "

    I see you refuse to address that.
    Government does not run private business. Obama is not ceo over taxpayers money. Nice try all you show is you like Obama's socialist policies and that you are an Obama apologist

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    Re: Senate passes sweeping Wall Street reform

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay genius. What industrialized country managed to survive without a financial banking sector?
    They were not collapsing proof is they sat on the bailout money

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