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Mark Critz Defeats Tim Burns in Pennsylvania Special Election for Murtha's Seat

pro-bipartisan said:
Naive? You are the one who wants to judge the effects of Obama's Presidency when they haven't even happened yet! You keep making random and irrelevant statements. And yes, the stimulus will still be affecting America after today, that's why you can't judge his Presidency yet.
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Stop with the rhetoric and get the results, results do matter except to an Obama supporter. BEA.gov, BLS.gov, U.S. Treasury, U.S. Census, basic economics.

You really are naive and simply don't have any concept as to how much a trillion dollars is. Good Lord, kid, spending over a trillion dollars and getting these kind of results deserves condemnation, not give me more time. 15 million Americans are unemployed up from when he took office, debt is up over 3 trillion dollars in his first 1 1/2 years over what it was when he took office, millions of people are discouraged in trying to find a job, economic growth due to the growth in the size of govt. has reduced govt. revenue and not created any private sector jobs.

you want to give him time? This is the damage he has done in 1 1/2 years, Can't wait for another 2 1/2 years, can you?
 
Conservative said:
Stop with the rhetoric and get the results, results do matter except to an Obama supporter. BEA.gov, BLS.gov, U.S. Treasury, U.S. Census, basic economics.

You really are naive and simply don't have any concept as to how much a trillion dollars is. Good Lord, kid, spending over a trillion dollars and getting these kind of results deserves condemnation, not give me more time. 15 million Americans are unemployed up from when he took office, debt is up over 3 trillion dollars in his first 1 1/2 years over what it was when he took office, millions of people are discouraged in trying to find a job, economic growth due to the growth in the size of govt. has reduced govt. revenue and not created any private sector jobs.

you want to give him time? This is the damage he has done in 1 1/2 years, Can't wait for another 2 1/2 years, can you?
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Fixing the economy in 1 1/2 years was an impossible task. If you expected the economy to be in better shape before Obama's policies could be fully implemented YOU need to learn economics. Fixing the recession we are in in less than 2 years isn't possible. I especially don't understand how you can expect things to turn around in his first year in office. He couldn't have possible done anything that would take less than a year to help the economy. But now in recent months, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been created.
 
pro-bipartisan said:
Fixing the economy in 1 1/2 years was an impossible task. If you expected the economy to be in better shape before Obama's policies could be fully implemented YOU need to learn economics. Fixing the recession we are in in less than 2 years isn't possible. I especially don't understand how you can expect things to turn around in his first year in office. He couldn't have possible done anything that would take less than a year to help the economy. But now in recent months, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been created.
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So spending trillions of dollars to generate these results and you are willing to give him more time? What does the debt have to be before you say enough is enough? Do you have any understanding of how much 3 trillion dollars in debt in 2 years equals? How does that debt affect you?

I would agree with you if he didn't hit the ground running with a Democrat controlled Congress but that is what happened. He implemented policy day one in office and signed the stimulus plan a week later. That plan was to cap unemployment at 8%. How did that work out for the country and if he thought it was going to take more time why did he make the claim?

Please stop buying the rhetoric and actually get the facts. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is the place to go to find out where those hundreds of thousands of jobs were created. Go there and get the facts, bls.gov. Stop buying what you are told by the left even though you want to believe the rhetoric. Why is that? Why aren't there any consequences in the liberal world? Do you have any clue as to what all this govt. spending is going to cost you and your family? Please get an education.
 
pro-bipartisan said:
Fixing the economy in 1 1/2 years was an impossible task. If you expected the economy to be in better shape before Obama's policies could be fully implemented YOU need to learn economics. Fixing the recession we are in in less than 2 years isn't possible. I especially don't understand how you can expect things to turn around in his first year in office. He couldn't have possible done anything that would take less than a year to help the economy. But now in recent months, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been created.
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I don't believe that Obama's policies are the right ones, but I do admit that you have a point. After all, when the market crashed in 1929, it did not reach that level again until 1954. Do we therefore blame Eisenhower for the Great Depression?
 
reagan's dead, obama's president, his agenda is out of reach

it is what it is

happy potty parity, progressives
 
Conservative said:
So spending trillions of dollars to generate these results and you are willing to give him more time? What does the debt have to be before you say enough is enough? Do you have any understanding of how much 3 trillion dollars in debt in 2 years equals? How does that debt affect you?

I would agree with you if he didn't hit the ground running with a Democrat controlled Congress but that is what happened. He implemented policy day one in office and signed the stimulus plan a week later. That plan was to cap unemployment at 8%. How did that work out for the country and if he thought it was going to take more time why did he make the claim?

Please stop buying the rhetoric and actually get the facts. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is the place to go to find out where those hundreds of thousands of jobs were created. Go there and get the facts, bls.gov. Stop buying what you are told by the left even though you want to believe the rhetoric. Why is that? Why aren't there any consequences in the liberal world? Do you have any clue as to what all this govt. spending is going to cost you and your family? Please get an education.
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Just post one paragraph next time with actual material instead of three next time in which two are meaningless crap.

A direct quote from BLS, "Job gains occurred in manufacturing, professional and business services, health care, and leisure and hospitality." Thanks for helping me in proving my point.
 
pro-bipartisan said:
Just post one paragraph next time with actual material instead of three next time in which two are meaningless crap.

A direct quote from BLS, "Job gains occurred in manufacturing, professional and business services, health care, and leisure and hospitality." Thanks for helping me in proving my point.
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Great job of picking and choosing data that you believe supports your point of view. It takes almost 500,000 jobs a month to make any kind of dent in the unemployment rate so the measly 300,000 caused the rates to rise and the number of unemployed and discouraged to grow. Only a true liberal can spin those numbers positively. You make my point with every post, you are young, immature, naive, and factually challenged.
 
Conservative said:
Great job of picking and choosing data that you believe supports your point of view. It takes almost 500,000 jobs a month to make any kind of dent in the unemployment rate so the measly 300,000 caused the rates to rise and the number of unemployed and discouraged to grow. Only a true liberal can spin those numbers positively. You make my point with every post, you are young, immature, naive, and factually challenged.
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Ok. So what you really expected when Obama took office is for him to turn an economy where 700000 people every month are losing their jobs to an economy where 500000 people are gaining jobs over night?

Maybe you're just upset because conservatives predicted that Obama would obliterate the economy and in reality it's turning around. I wonder what you'll say when we start gaining 500000 jobs every month?

EDIT: Also, show me where the number of discouraged workers grew in april. I think you're making it up.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ort-best-gain-in-four-years/?fbid=l8TqaUJhfnM

The number of discouraged workers, or people who want a job but are not counted in the labor force has now dropped by 355,000 since December.
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pro-bipartisan said:
Fixing the economy in 1 1/2 years was an impossible task.
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maybe so, maybe not. The problem here is Obama did, or didn't do what he thought was the correct course of action, but that he chose a Keynesian approach that has failed miserably in every other place it has been instituted. Get a load of Greece, this is Obama's path but on a much larger scale.


If you expected the economy to be in better shape before Obama's policies could be fully implemented YOU need to learn economics.
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With all due respect sir, if you think that the only way to dig out of a recession like the one we are still in, is to print ever increasing amounts of money, backed by loans from other countries to fund our debt and social morass, then it may just be you whom needs some refresher in econ 101.


Fixing the recession we are in in less than 2 years isn't possible.
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The first thing that should have been pledged to the American people is like a doctor, first do no harm!


I especially don't understand how you can expect things to turn around in his first year in office.
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You have to stop the bleeding first...Obama opened the wound and poured steroids in it.


He couldn't have possible done anything that would take less than a year to help the economy.
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Not true at all. There were plenty of things that would have helped stimulate business to let them know that the government had their back, and they would have started producing more. As it is now, Obama is schizophrenic with business. One minute demonizing them to the public, the next patting them on the back. They don't know which way to turn, but they do know one thing, higher taxes, and mandated expenditures will destroy them.


But now in recent months, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been created.
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NOT TRUE!!!!! Obama in his term so far has watched MILLIONS of jobs disappear while he plays golf. Now you libs want to yell success from the roof tops over a couple of bell hop jobs? Give me a break! Unemployment is a reported 9.9% which is a lie because the actual number of people out of work, out of benefits, and out of patience is closer to 17%. Obama may just unseat Carter as the worst disaster to this country in memory!


j-mac
 
roughdraft274 said:
Ok. So what you really expected when Obama took office is for him to turn an economy where 700000 people every month are losing their jobs to an economy where 500000 people are gaining jobs over night?

Maybe you're just upset because conservatives predicted that Obama would obliterate the economy and in reality it's turning around. I wonder what you'll say when we start gaining 500000 jobs every month?

EDIT: Also, show me where the number of discouraged workers grew in april. I think you're making it up.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - April Jobs report: Best gain in four years - Blogs from CNN.com
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Interesting, what were your expectations when Obama signed the 842 billion dollar stimulus plan that he said would cap unemployment at 8%?

As for the number of discouraged workers, go to bls.gov

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2010 1065 1204 994 1197

Discouraged workers in March 994 thousand and in April 1.197 million.

Why don't you hold your own candidates to the same scrutiny you hold me to? It is always prove your numbers to me then when I do prove the numbers you and others are on to another topic. It really is something when an ideology creates such brainwashed people who always trust but never verify.
 
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Conservative said:
Interesting, what were your expectations when Obama signed the 842 billion dollar stimulus plan that he said would cap unemployment at 8%?

As for the number of discouraged workers, go to bls.gov

Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2010 1065 1204 994 1197

Discouraged workers in March 994 thousand and in April 1.197 million.

Why don't you hold your own candidates to the same scrutiny you hold me to? It is always prove your numbers to me then when I do prove the numbers you and others are on to another topic. It really is something when an ideology creates such brainwashed people who always trust but never verify.
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Obama's economic advisers projected that it would cap unemployment at 8 %. Projection is another word for "educated guess".

To answer your question, I hoped that it would keep things from getting as bad as they would if it was not passed.
 
Redress said:
Obama's economic advisers projected that it would cap unemployment at 8 %. Projection is another word for "educated guess".

To answer your question, I hoped that it would keep things from getting as bad as they would if it was not passed.
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Spending 842 billion dollars is just another example of someone who hasn't any concept of just how much that is. It was indeed a projection and it was wrong. How could someone who was in the Senate and part of the problem be so wrong and you give him a pass?

Stop buying the rhetoric of someone who claims that no one should ever let a good crisis go to waste. This President is taking advantage of every crisis most of which he is creating to destroy the foundation upon which this economy was built. People like you continue to give him a pass.
 
Conservative said:
Spending 842 billion dollars is just another example of someone who hasn't any concept of just how much that is. It was indeed a projection and it was wrong. How could someone who was in the Senate and part of the problem be so wrong and you give him a pass?

Stop buying the rhetoric of someone who claims that no one should ever let a good crisis go to waste. This President is taking advantage of every crisis most of which he is creating to destroy the foundation upon which this economy was built. People like you continue to give him a pass.
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No one can accurately predict the future. Not you, not me. The report that the 8 % figure came from made it clear that the numbers where estimates and projections and could be wrong.
 
Redress said:
No one can accurately predict the future. Not you, not me. The report that the 8 % figure came from made it clear that the numbers where estimates and projections and could be wrong.
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So we had to spend pass the 842 billion dollar stimulus plan on a partyline vote immediately without reading the bill or even having an honest debate? The bill was signed in February 2009 and here we are 15 months later and the unemployment is worse. When does Obama get held accountable for this failure?

Do you realize what a fool this President is making of people like you?
 
Conservative said:
So we had to spend pass the 842 billion dollar stimulus plan on a partyline vote immediately without reading the bill or even having an honest debate? The bill was signed in February 2009 and here we are 15 months later and the unemployment is worse. When does Obama get held accountable for this failure?

Do you realize what a fool this President is making of people like you?
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Did the 842 b keep things from getting as bad as they could have? I believe it did. There is evidence it did. The idea that since unemployment exceeded the projection does not mean the stimulus did not work.
 
Conservative said:
Great job of picking and choosing data that you believe supports your point of view. It takes almost 500,000 jobs a month to make any kind of dent in the unemployment rate so the measly 300,000 caused the rates to rise and the number of unemployed and discouraged to grow. Only a true liberal can spin those numbers positively. You make my point with every post, you are young, immature, naive, and factually challenged.
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How am I picking and choosing? You asked me what kind of jobs were being created and I told you. To me that sounds like an answer.
 
j-mac said:
maybe so, maybe not. The problem here is Obama did, or didn't do what he thought was the correct course of action, but that he chose a Keynesian approach that has failed miserably in every other place it has been instituted. Get a load of Greece, this is Obama's path but on a much larger scale.





With all due respect sir, if you think that the only way to dig out of a recession like the one we are still in, is to print ever increasing amounts of money, backed by loans from other countries to fund our debt and social morass, then it may just be you whom needs some refresher in econ 101.

I never said that.



The first thing that should have been pledged to the American people is like a doctor, first do no harm!

Okay... that's irrelevant to anything I said.



You have to stop the bleeding first...Obama opened the wound and poured steroids in it.

Okay, once again I never posted anything contrary to that.



Not true at all. There were plenty of things that would have helped stimulate business to let them know that the government had their back, and they would have started producing more. As it is now, Obama is schizophrenic with business. One minute demonizing them to the public, the next patting them on the back. They don't know which way to turn, but they do know one thing, higher taxes, and mandated expenditures will destroy them.

I disagree, I don't think Obama could have done anything to significantly help the economy within a year of taking office.



NOT TRUE!!!!! Obama in his term so far has watched MILLIONS of jobs disappear while he plays golf. Now you libs want to yell success from the roof tops over a couple of bell hop jobs? Give me a break! Unemployment is a reported 9.9% which is a lie because the actual number of people out of work, out of benefits, and out of patience is closer to 17%. Obama may just unseat Carter as the worst disaster to this country in memory!


j-mac
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Yes it is true... just check the deptarment of labor and statistics.
 
j-mac said:
maybe so, maybe not. The problem here is Obama did, or didn't do what he thought was the correct course of action, but that he chose a Keynesian approach that has failed miserably in every other place it has been instituted. Get a load of Greece, this is Obama's path but on a much larger scale.





With all due respect sir, if you think that the only way to dig out of a recession like the one we are still in, is to print ever increasing amounts of money, backed by loans from other countries to fund our debt and social morass, then it may just be you whom needs some refresher in econ 101.





The first thing that should have been pledged to the American people is like a doctor, first do no harm!





You have to stop the bleeding first...Obama opened the wound and poured steroids in it.





Not true at all. There were plenty of things that would have helped stimulate business to let them know that the government had their back, and they would have started producing more. As it is now, Obama is schizophrenic with business. One minute demonizing them to the public, the next patting them on the back. They don't know which way to turn, but they do know one thing, higher taxes, and mandated expenditures will destroy them.





NOT TRUE!!!!! Obama in his term so far has watched MILLIONS of jobs disappear while he plays golf. Now you libs want to yell success from the roof tops over a couple of bell hop jobs? Give me a break! Unemployment is a reported 9.9% which is a lie because the actual number of people out of work, out of benefits, and out of patience is closer to 17%. Obama may just unseat Carter as the worst disaster to this country in memory!


j-mac
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Conservative said:
Interesting, what were your expectations when Obama signed the 842 billion dollar stimulus plan that he said would cap unemployment at 8%?

As for the number of discouraged workers, go to bls.gov

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2010 1065 1204 994 1197

Discouraged workers in March 994 thousand and in April 1.197 million.

Why don't you hold your own candidates to the same scrutiny you hold me to? It is always prove your numbers to me then when I do prove the numbers you and others are on to another topic. It really is something when an ideology creates such brainwashed people who always trust but never verify.
Click to expand...

I know you weren't directing the question at me but i didn't expect Obama fix the economy in a year. I expect him as President to significantly help the economy by the end of his first term.
 
Redress said:
Did the 842 b keep things from getting as bad as they could have? I believe it did. There is evidence it did. The idea that since unemployment exceeded the projection does not mean the stimulus did not work.
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Would you please listen to yourself? Obama made a prediction that the unemployment rate would not exceed 8% with the stimulus but was wrong yet you are willing to give him a pass with another prediction that things would have been worse had the stimulus not passed. You don't see a problem with that?

In fact things are worse, we had a total unemployment of 11.9 million and that number is now 15.2 million. You call that better?

You continue to buy what Obama tells you because you want to believe him. Try his act on your employer, tell him you want to spend a lot of money and generate these meager results. Think you would be employed very long?

I just don't get it, 842 BILLION dollars that is now over a trillion and these are the best that can be done? incredible that your standards are so low. I expected a lot more from that kind of investment that apparently you do or could it be that you simply are used to liberal failures and believe this is a success? I doubt the 15.2 million unemployed people today consider this a success.
 
Conservative said:
Would you please listen to yourself? Obama made a prediction that the unemployment rate would not exceed 8% with the stimulus but was wrong yet you are willing to give him a pass with another prediction that things would have been worse had the stimulus not passed. You don't see a problem with that?

In fact things are worse, we had a total unemployment of 11.9 million and that number is now 15.2 million. You call that better?

You continue to buy what Obama tells you because you want to believe him. Try his act on your employer, tell him you want to spend a lot of money and generate these meager results. Think you would be employed very long?

I just don't get it, 842 BILLION dollars that is now over a trillion and these are the best that can be done? incredible that your standards are so low. I expected a lot more from that kind of investment that apparently you do or could it be that you simply are used to liberal failures and believe this is a success? I doubt the 15.2 million unemployed people today consider this a success.
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Let me try again. The report that the 8 % figure came from(which, FYI,Obama did not write), specifically makes it a point that it is making projections, which may not be accurate since you cannot predict the future. It also predicted that things would get worse, and they did. The question with the stimulus is whether it would have been worse without it than with it, and it is impossible to say for sure, but there is definite evidence that in fact things would be worse, with higher unemployment if we had not passed it.
 
Redress said:
Let me try again. The report that the 8 % figure came from(which, FYI,Obama did not write), specifically makes it a point that it is making projections, which may not be accurate since you cannot predict the future. It also predicted that things would get worse, and they did. The question with the stimulus is whether it would have been worse without it than with it, and it is impossible to say for sure, but there is definite evidence that in fact things would be worse, with higher unemployment if we had not passed it.
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It is worse, what part of that do you not understand? Obama was part of a Congress that created the problem yet that is ignored. Why?

The only evidence that is out there now is the total failure of this economic policy. Tax rate cuts would have put more money into the hands of the people immediately and empowered them. Obama empowered the govt. not the individuals and thus is creating the failure we have now.

If you were running a company and got these kind of results after spending this amount of money and creating this kind of debt you would be fired.
 
Conservative said:
It is worse, what part of that do you not understand? Obama was part of a Congress that created the problem yet that is ignored. Why?

The only evidence that is out there now is the total failure of this economic policy. Tax rate cuts would have put more money into the hands of the people immediately and empowered them. Obama empowered the govt. not the individuals and thus is creating the failure we have now.

If you were running a company and got these kind of results after spending this amount of money and creating this kind of debt you would be fired.
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Worse than what? Worse than it was when the bill passed? Yes, we pretty much all knew that would happen. Worse than it would be without a stimulus? I doubt it.
 
The Prof said:
mr critz is apparently judging the presidency

and the WINNER in pa12 keeps saying NO
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This is what many on the right are saying now. But, until yesterday, for the last month, I had been hearing nothing but how PA-12 was a belweather election, how Republicans were going to win it, and how that meant that a Republican landslide would happen in November. All of a sudden, after the election is over, this (^) is what I see.

We need to keep things honest. OK, the Dems won a round. OK, Republicans have their work cut out for them. OK, time to get to work on strategy. This election result only lasts until November. Back to the drawing board, and let's see if we can win this then. But to downplay the results, after hyping the election for more than a month, is extremely dishonest. And let me add that people are not stupid. If those trying to get PA-12 away from the Democrats this fall continue their dishonesty, people will remember, and all will be lost there. Honesty is not only the best policy here. It is the ONLY policy if you want to win.
 
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Redress said:
Worse than what? Worse than it was when the bill passed? Yes, we pretty much all knew that would happen. Worse than it would be without a stimulus? I doubt it.
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I doubt that anything is going to change your mind regarding this President and his economic policy. Obviously you haven't read the Constitution nor do you care about the foundation upon which this country was built. had GW Bush generated these kind of results your attitude would be entirely different. And had this been you spending the money for your company and generating these kind of results you wouldn't have a job today yet you give him a pass. Says a lot about you.
 
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