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Supreme Court Restricts Life Sentences for Juveniles

danarhea

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The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that teenagers may not be locked up in prison for life with no chance of parole if they have not killed anyone.

OK, this I can agree with. Some teens can be complete douche bags, but to put them away for life if they haven't committed murder is, IMHO, cruel and unusual punishment.

Good call, Supremes.

Article is here.
 
Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

Court Bars Life Terms for Youths Who Haven?t Killed - NYTimes.com

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that juveniles who commit crimes in which no one is killed may not be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

I think this is a wise decision and a step in the right direction for our criminal justice system. What do you think?
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

Court Bars Life Terms for Youths Who Haven?t Killed - NYTimes.com



I think this is a wise decision and a step in the right direction for our criminal justice system. What do you think?

Hmmm, seems simple enough. But what about if a 16 year old rapes a 5 year old? Seems to be that person can never be rehabilitated and should probably remain in prison.

Dunno, I think it should be on a case by case basis.
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...court-restricts-life-sentences-juveniles.html

Beat ya' by about 6 hours, but I can see why you posted this anyways. I have zero replies on my thread, and it already fell off the first page. Maybe you can do better with yours....

Oops, you already have. You got ONE reply, oops, make that two now. LOL.

BTW, we actually agree on something. Who would have thunk it? :mrgreen:
 
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Moderator's Warning:
Threads merged. Stupid SCOTUS making work for me today
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

I agree.

And I love your Strongbad :)

Strongbad > *

Trogdar was such a great song...

Sorry, derail over.
 
I believe most states had statutes similar to this already, I know mine did. Either way, it's a good call on the part of the SCOTUS.
 
Overall, this seems like a good decision.
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

Hmmm, seems simple enough. But what about if a 16 year old rapes a 5 year old? Seems to be that person can never be rehabilitated and should probably remain in prison.

Dunno, I think it should be on a case by case basis.

I think a 16 year old can be rehabilitated in that case actually.
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

Strongbad > *

Trogdar was such a great song...

Sorry, derail over.

Indeed!
I've changed my siggy in honor of such great vocals!
 
Re: Supreme Court bans life sentences for youths who haven't killed

I think a 16 year old can be rehabilitated in that case actually.

yeah they are gonna get rehabilitated. If they spend more than a couple years in prison, they are worse than when they went in if they are in a general population prison.

prisons tend to turn amateur criminals into professional ones,
 
Whether or not this is a good policy is somewhat irrelevant next to the question of whether it's the SC's job to create new constitutional rights and modify legislatively enacted sentencing schemes.

If the court was set on creating this new right, the least it could have done would be to lay out exactly what it entailed, rather than to let Kennedy rattle off another multi-factor test that will be misapplied by every circuit that touches it.

In state prisons scattered across ten states, and in a handful of federal penitentiaries, a group of 129 prisoners on Monday gained a new constitutional right from the Supreme Court, but not one of them yet knows whether the ruling will lead to freedom. Each of them, convicted as minors and sentenced to life in prison without the chance of release, learned that it would no longer be possible for any juvenile to get that sentence in the future if the crime did not involve murder. But the Court did not rule that any of those 129 must now be released, or even that any of them must be re-sentenced. That was not what they won.

Instead, each of the 129 must be given some chance to show, at some point in the future, that they have matured enough while in prison that they might then be ruled “fit to rejoin society” (in the Court’s phrase) rather than staying in prison for the rest of their lives. And, while every other juvenile who commits a serious “non-homicide” crime from now on has won a right not to be sentenced to life without potential release; the decision leaves open the possibility that conviction for such a juvenile might lead to a definite prison sentence of perhaps 40 or more years, thus stretching their confinement long into the future, perhaps to old age.

SCOTUSblog Today’s orders and opinions

Finally, from Justice Thomas' dissent:

n the end, the Court does not even believe its pronouncements about the juvenile mind. If it did, the categorical rule it announces today would be most peculiar because it leaves intact state and federal laws that permit life-without-parole sentences for juveniles who commit homicides. The Court thus acknowledges that there is nothing inherent in the psyche of a person less than 18 that prevents him from acquiring the moral agency necessary to warrant a life-without-parole sentence. Instead, the Court rejects overwhelming legislative consensus only on the question of which acts are sufficient to demonstrate that moral agency.

The Court is quite willing to accept that a 17-year-old who pulls the trigger on a firearm can demonstrate sufficient depravity and irredeemability to be denied reentry into society, but insists that a 17-year-old who rapes an 8-year-old and leaves her for dead does not. Thus, the Court’s conclusion that life-without-parole sentences are “grossly disproportionate” for juvenile nonhomicide offenders in fact has very little to do with its view of juveniles, and much more to do with its perception that “defendants who do not kill, intend to kill, or foresee that life will be taken are categorically less deserving of the most serious forms of punishment than are murderers.”
 
The Fox article says that it was a 5-4 decision, but the SCOTUS-blog says it was 6-3.

Am I missing something?
 
The Fox article says that it was a 5-4 decision, but the SCOTUS-blog says it was 6-3.

Am I missing something?

Justice Roberts only concurred in the specific result in this case, not in the logic that the majority used to lay out this new right.
 
Whether or not this is a good policy is somewhat irrelevant next to the question of whether it's the SC's job to create new constitutional rights and modify legislatively enacted sentencing schemes.

It's not really a new right persay...just a new application of the 8th amendment.

RightinNYC said:

I understand Thomas' point, but the fact is that courts (as well as society at large) have always accepted different standards of "cruel and unusual" for different crimes. If some state was sentencing people to life in prison for routine traffic violations, the Court would almost certainly rule it to be cruel and unusual. But they don't do the same thing for homicides.
 
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It's not really a new right persay...just a new application of the 8th amendment.

It's a distinction without a difference. Prior to this decision, there was nothing to say that a juvenile couldn't be sentenced to life without parole. Now, those juveniles have a constitutional right to have a "chance" to prove that they're good people at some point.

I understand Thomas' point, but the fact is that courts (as well as society at large) have always accepted different standards of "cruel and unusual" for different crimes. If some state was sentencing people to life in prison for routine traffic violations, the Court would almost certainly rule it to be cruel and unusual. But they don't do the same thing for homicides.


His argument is more in response to the logic used by the majority to reach this result. In arguing for special protections for juveniles, the majority spends much of its opinion talking about how juveniles aren't really fully mentally developed yet. It then said that as a result of that lack of mental development, it would be cruel and unusual to sentence them to life in prison without possibility of parole in these cases. However, the court has also said that it's perfectly fine to sentence juveniles to life without parole if they kill someone. If we follow the majority's logic in this case, I don't see why the result should be any different - if juveniles are so undeveloped that they should have an opportunity to show rehabilitation at some later point, then why doesn't that apply in murder cases? As Thomas asks, is a 17 year old who shoots someone more likely to be "incurable" than a 17 year old who beats and rapes a child and leaves her for dead?
 
His argument is more in response to the logic used by the majority to reach this result. In arguing for special protections for juveniles, the majority spends much of its opinion talking about how juveniles aren't really fully mentally developed yet. It then said that as a result of that lack of mental development, it would be cruel and unusual to sentence them to life in prison without possibility of parole in these cases. However, the court has also said that it's perfectly fine to sentence juveniles to life without parole if they kill someone. If we follow the majority's logic in this case, I don't see why the result should be any different - if juveniles are so undeveloped that they should have an opportunity to show rehabilitation at some later point, then why doesn't that apply in murder cases? As Thomas asks, is a 17 year old who shoots someone more likely to be "incurable" than a 17 year old who beats and rapes a child and leaves her for dead?

It's a point well taken, but I can still see some difference here. Generally speaking, we don't treat juveniles as harshly as we treat adults since they are considered to be immature. Also, we don't treat lesser crimes as harshly as we treat more serious crimes. So I don't necessarily see a conflict here: Whereas an adult might be sentenced to life in prison without parole for child rape, a juvenile will receive a lesser sentence (life in prison WITH parole). And whereas an adult might be sentenced to execution for murder, a juvenile will receive a lesser sentence (life in prison without parole).

For any given crime, the juvenile is treated more leniently than the adult. The majority opinion isn't necessarily saying that it's inherently unconstitutional to sentence juveniles to life in prison without parole, due to their immaturity...they're just saying that given their immaturity, it's unconstitutional for this particular crime. Similarly, while the court doesn't uniformly rule execution to be cruel and unusual punishment, they probably would rule it was cruel and unusual for routine traffic offenses.
 
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Justice Roberts only concurred in the specific result in this case, not in the logic that the majority used to lay out this new right.

I feel a bit like Roberts here, though granted I won't sugest I can make any informed decision without looking at the case. But my gut actually does agree with the notion of cruel and unusual for juveniles to get life in prison sentences in most cases.

That said...

What actually GIVES life in prison sentences? Rape? Manslaughter? B&E? Theft?

What other than Murder does? I think that'd be an important part to think of. What acts exactly are likely to get Life that we're saying is somehow acceptable to think that Juveniles shouldn't get life for it, while it is accceptable if they kill someone.
 
Whether or not this is a good policy is somewhat irrelevant next to the question of whether it's the SC's job to create new constitutional rights and modify legislatively enacted sentencing schemes.

If the court was set on creating this new right, the least it could have done would be to lay out exactly what it entailed, rather than to let Kennedy rattle off another multi-factor test that will be misapplied by every circuit that touches it.



SCOTUSblog Today’s orders and opinions

Finally, from Justice Thomas' dissent:

I disagree. It is not SCOTUS creating a new right, but upholding an existing right, that of no cruel or unusual punishment. Basically, the punishment should fit the crime.
 
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