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Thread: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You don't know how sex offenders would be treated in general population in prison?
    actually, i think they are a well protected class.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They chose to commit a crime and violate someone else.
    They are perfectly capable of recognizing right from wrong - they *know* they've done wrong, they just chose to do it, anyway. And most make serious efforts to cover up their wrong, too.

    In with teh regular population, imho, is where they belong.

    If someone doesn't want to be punished for a crime then they shouldn't commit it.
    as sociopath knows right from wrong, and they choose to commit murders. what's the difference?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Court: Sexually dangerous can be kept in prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I have to agree. Everyone is entitled to their day in court. They can defend themselves. If found guilty, they are sentenced. Once the sentence is up, that's the end of government force against the individual's rights. Done and done. You can't infinitely punish someone because we don't like the cut of their crime. In the end, it becomes nothing more than suspending habeas corpus; which is a horrible horrible thing to do and a power reserved, I believe, only for the President.

    I know no one likes sex offenders and such and we think them horrible. But we cannot allow our emotions to overcome rational and logic thought. We have to understand the limitations to the powers government has. Today the sex offender, tomorrow the drunk driver, then the terrorist....the list can keep going. We need to tread carefully and we need to understand that free means that we acknowledge the rights of others, that we place power in the sovereignty of the individual, that government is limited in what it can do, it's power is finite. Accepting growth and expansion of government instead of the consequences of freedom is a dangerous path to walk; and one I'm not willing to go down.
    good post. we can, however, change our laws to limit their freedoms once released. i'm in favor of that, and we shouldn't have any more debacles like not being able to release a person once their term has been served because we can't find a place for him.

    maybe if we didn't spend so much incarcerating non violent drug offenders we could afford to provide some security against paroled sex offenders.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I probably should reserve saying I agree until I read the decision itself. However, it's hard for me to find a problem when the most liberal justices find that the statute isn't unconstitutional.
    well, it's my OPINION that it is unconstitutional. we can't imprison a person for a crime they might commit in the future.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    actually, i think they are a well protected class.
    Only if they aren't put into general population.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Court: Sexually dangerous can be kept in prison

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    good post. we can, however, change our laws to limit their freedoms once released. i'm in favor of that, and we shouldn't have any more debacles like not being able to release a person once their term has been served because we can't find a place for him.

    maybe if we didn't spend so much incarcerating non violent drug offenders we could afford to provide some security against paroled sex offenders.
    Well in terms of limiting their freedom once released, that too I'm not so much into. I think that a person gets his day in court, can plea his position to a jury of his peers, and is judged by said jury. If found guilty, the judge hands down a sentence. Once that sentence is completed, that's it. No more punishment, the full rights of the individual must once again be recognized. That to me is proper use of the government.
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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Thomas and Scalia dissented. I gotta read this. I am happy with this outcome, and I love when I see the libs and the cons agree on a subject matter. Here's a link to the decision. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1224.pdf

    I accidentally put the link as the title. I apologize.

    THANK YOU FOR CHANGING MY TITLE!
    What? Indefinite prison terms are 100% unacceptable. Heavy surveillence is fine, if you want to foot the billl.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 05-17-10 at 05:17 PM.
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    Re: Court: Sexually dangerous can be kept in prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well in terms of limiting their freedom once released, that too I'm not so much into. I think that a person gets his day in court, can plea his position to a jury of his peers, and is judged by said jury. If found guilty, the judge hands down a sentence. Once that sentence is completed, that's it. No more punishment, the full rights of the individual must once again be recognized. That to me is proper use of the government.
    as statistics show that sexual predators are very likely to re-offend, i don't have a problem limiting their freedoms. that could be part of their sentence, imo. lifetime parole would be good to start with.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Two fold...

    First, is highlighting the fact that support of this for many may very well be an emotional response, born out of a hatred for Sexual Predators, rather than one based out of principle or reason. To highlight this I changed sexual predator to terrorist and asked people to consider if they'd stll feel the same way about it.

    Second, was to highlight the notion that some people see this and KNOW its a slippery slope KNOW its possibly wrong but still can't rightly get upset or heated about it, or perhaps even be against it, based on their extreme disdain for the group in question (sexual predators). After highlighting this notion, asking those same people to perhaps attempt to use that experience as a means of perhaps better understanding those who have a similar experience when it comes to terrorists.
    My thoughts exactly. Look at where are country has gone in the last ten years. We've got one group of people who now can be held indefinitely, and another that doesn't even get a trial at all. I know, terrorists and sex offenders. I hate them too. Is that really enough to trample over rights?

    To steal a phrase from Navy Pride, my right-wing friends: I don't understand. You're taking the the streets, holding up signs and shouting over government overstepping its bounds because they're making you buy health insurance and maybe someone in the government is thinking about making you register your guns. I know you dislike that, but let's get some perspective here. You're taking to the streets over a $750 tax levied if you choose not to purchase health insurance, something you probably do anyway and REALLY SHOULD DO if you don't. Meanwhile, you're supporting circumstances in which you, as a citizen of this country, could be detained indefinitely without trial or held in prison beyond your sentence. I know, you don't plan on committing terrorism or rape, but that isn't the point. Rights applied selectively aren't rights at all. Why bother with Due Process if you're going to end up ignoring it?

    How can you small-government types not see this as government stepping over a very critical line. Guns, health care, speech... small potatoes. The rule of law is what this country was really built on. The moment the government decides they don't need those silly trials and juries and judges, they can take away the rest of those rights.
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    Re: Supreme Court: Sex offenders can be held indefinitely

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So does this mean that a sex offender, who has had his day in court, has been sentenced, and has served that sentence officially delivered by the courts can then be held in prison indefinitely with no new trial or ability to defend themselves because of their crime? If so, that is unconstitutional and just about grounds for revolt. They basically just got rid of habeas corpus. If that is true, no one in their right mind could be happy about the decision.
    Just to be clear, according to the story it is 'some sex offenders'. And the criterial would be that they are 'sexually dangerous'. Now, you can make fun of that vague term, but I trust the integrity of those doing probation reports and psych evaluations.


    Here is a more detailed explanation from another source.

    Ruling on Sex Offenders

    There will be plenty of hearings, too, for sex offenders judged too dangerous and mentally ill to be released back into society. The court's other notable decision Monday -- on a 7-2 vote -- buttresses a congressional effort in 2005 to keep in custody any past sex offender who, according to the words in the statute, "currently 'suffers from a serious mental illness, abnormality, or disorder' and who 'as a result of' that mental illness, abnormality, or disorder is 'sexually dangerous to others' in that 'he would have serious difficulty in refraining from sexually violent conduct or child molestation if released.'"

    The feds must bear this burden of proof under a "clear and convincing" standard, which is lower than the criminal proof standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" but higher than the civil standard, which is "by a preponderance of the evidence." And if they can, offenders will remain in custody, long past the end of their official criminal sentences, until they can establish that they are no longer dangerous or the state decides to assume "responsibility for his custody, care and treatment."
    That language sounds reasonable and specific enough. -- "serious difficulty in refraining from sexually violent conduct or child molestation if released."

    Civil confinement also sounds reasonable. This empowers authorities to better deal with recidivism among sex offenders.

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