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Greece may take legal action against US banks [edited]

PeteEU said:
Problem is Greece did not approach them.. the banks approached Greece with a product designed to hide the debt. They were advised by the bank that it was legal and no problem. That was very bad advice and considering the information we have been getting on these very banks playing both sides of the track.. then the question arises if the banks set up Greece (and others) to fail so the banks could earn trillions.

There is this thing of aiding a criminal or illegal act.. which is what the banks did.
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LOL... are the Greeks a bunch of incompetent nincompoops that couldn't understand what they were getting into? Well, we've established that... so Yes.

They didn't have the brains to see what could be? Seems so.

Didn't have the will power to say no? Another... in the yes column.

Couldn't have consulted with some of their EU members or other financial advisers? Perhaps they did and got the green light.

You see, here we have the ever arrogant Europeans telling us how we should run our show, when they are up to their asses in debt and don't shell out barely a nickel for national defense. Then when they are offered dubious instruments and accept them... they turn around and blame those making the offer.

Did they eliminate the word "no" from the Greek vocabulary?

Then we have one of my favorite posters, a definer of the EU... Petey... defending Greece's ridiculous behavior, pointing fingers at the US.

Man up Eurowimps. Accept your own mistakes and take responsibility for your won f-ups and back yard for once.

.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is Greece did not approach them.. the banks approached Greece with a product designed to hide the debt. They were advised by the bank that it was legal and no problem.
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It doesn’t matter that the bank approached them, governments are responsible for their legal advice, usually not something they put out to board.

I hope the Nigerian lottery doesn’t have their number.

That was very bad advice and considering the information we have been getting on these very banks playing both sides of the track.. then the question arises if the banks set up Greece (and others) to fail so the banks could earn trillions.
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Err, for the record, I have seen no information other than your accusations on this forum. If they make trillions (Rupees?) that’s not going to go by unnoticed in these economical depressing times.
There is this thing of aiding a criminal or illegal act.. which is what the banks did.
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Ah, I see. So the Greek government is the criminal and the plaintiff in this conflict, how interesting. Somehow I don’t think they’ll be able to prove any of it, but maybe I’m being naïve. :lol:
 
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Djoop said:
It doesn’t matter that the bank approached them, governments are responsible for their legal advice, usually not something they put out to board.
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Of course the former government is responsible for it all, but that does not mean that accomplices should go free does it?

Err, for the record, I have seen no information other than your accusations on this forum. If they make trillions (Rupees?) that’s not going to go by unnoticed in these economical depressing times.
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Not my fault you dont know of the role of speculators and investment banks in the world economy. George Soros ring a bell? Ask the Brits about him. And dont you find it odd that the bailed out investment banks had profit every single day for the last many months despite days where the markets went down several 100 points.. hmmmz. Wonder what they made money on .. oh yea, bets on the markets taking a nose dive! And that is the root of the problem. Companies and investors can make bets on an negative and actively assure that the negative happens.

Ah, I see. So the Greek government is the criminal and the plaintiff in this conflict, how interesting. Somehow I don’t think they’ll be able to prove any of it, but maybe I’m being naïve. :lol:
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No, the Greeks are the bank robbers, and the banks are the driver in the get away car. Should the driver not be punished for his actions?

It amazes me that people dont believe in accountability for ALL involved.. instead you all protect the banks (most likely because they are US) and throw more firewood on the Greece fire... pathetic attitude to be frank.
 
PeteEU said:
Of course the former government is responsible for it all, but that does not mean that accomplices should go free does it?
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So, what’s the penalty for giving bad advice? Anyways, I’ve given my opinion and that’s all the time I’m going to waste on the nonsensical notion that it takes balls to blame others for your mistakes.

Not my fault you dont know of the role of speculators and investment banks in the world economy. George Soros ring a bell? Ask the Brits about him.
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If this comment convinced anybody let me know, I’ll kill myself.

And dont you find it odd that the bailed out investment banks had profit every single day for the last many months despite days where the markets went down several 100 points.. hmmmz. Wonder what they made money on .. oh yea, bets on the markets taking a nose dive! And that is the root of the problem. Companies and investors can make bets on an negative and actively assure that the negative happens.
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No I don’t find it odd, most banks are back in black. Do you want to borrow some money?

No, the Greeks are the bank robbers, and the banks are the driver in the get away car. Should the driver not be punished for his actions?
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The answer is always NO because the analogy is incorrect.

It amazes me that people dont believe in accountability for ALL involved.. instead you all protect the banks (most likely because they are US) and throw more firewood on the Greece fire... pathetic attitude to be frank.
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Yeah my attitude is pathetic and I don’t the role of speculators and investment banks in the world economy, I should be thankful for your willingness to respond to my comments.

You obviously forgot I had to school you on black wednesday, still you ask me if I know Soros. I’m not going to downplay it and say it’s pathetic, some thing are better left unsaid.
 
IMO, legal action may be far-fetched. That does not mean other mechanisms to reduce/slow speculation might not be a bad idea. However, the source of the problem is Greece's fiscal position.

If Greece ultimately needs to have its debt restructured, and if the IMF proceeds with a preemptive restructuring (the alternative it offered to the package that was ultimately agreed), both public and private sector institutions will take losses on Greek debt. While the banks suffering the "haircuts," especially if they are forced through by the IMF, might try to claim to be "innocent victims" of Greek fiscal profligacy, the reality is that there are no "innocent victims" in the debtor-creditor relationship. It takes two to tango, so to speak. Greece failed to gain a grasp on its fiscal policy. The financial institutions and others that allowed Greece to accumulate a substantial external debt failed to consider Greece's past: the unique circumstances that followed Greece's anti-democratic era and Greece's history of serial default. In short, bad lending/poor risk management practices coupled with Greece's lack of fiscal sustainability were the building blocks of this most recent financial market crisis.

The speculation that has occurred in recent weeks is more of a symptom than the cause of the disease so to speak. The underlying disease is Greece's fiscal position. That does not mean that symptom mitigation is necessarily a bad thing, but the overall cure will depend on Greece's fiscal consolidation.

On May 15, 2010, European Central Bank (ECB) President Jean-Claude Trichet provided an interview with Der Spiegel. In that far-reaching interview, he provided some insights specifically related to Greece, not to mention the larger context of the financial challenges facing the Euro Zone.

With respect to Greece, some excerpts:

The Greek government took too long to acknowledge the extent of the problem and take the necessary measures. We at the European Central Bank (ECB) were loud and clear in our warnings that the government must act quickly and decisively. In very demanding times, in times of severe tensions deciding swiftly and decisively is of the essence...

...we must now demand extensive adjustment programs from the governments, which the heads of state and government committed to the Friday before last. They are committed to accelerating the consolidation of their budgets. They know what is at stake now...

There need to be major improvements to prevent bad behavior, to ensure effective implementation of the recommendations made by "peers" and to ensure real and effective sanctions in case of breaches (of the Stability and Growth Pact). The ECB is calling for major changes...
 
kaya'08 said:
Mr Papandrou, the horrific state of the Greek economy is as a result of GREEK stupidity and arrogance. First convenient claims that Germany had not properly compensated Greece during the WWII occupation of Greece, and now US banks are the sole reason Greece is on the verge of anarchy!

How low of you all!

Greece may take legal action against US banks - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review
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lol what a freaking joke, gee it couldn't have anything to do with the excessive spending of the socialists could it? I think the U.S. taxpayer should sue the Greek government for incompetence which is forcing us to use our tax dollars to help them out.
 
PeteEU said:
And let me repeat again. This has to do with the banks helping the previous government, a conservative lead government, hide the debt of the Greek state. The hiding of the debt caused the problem with Greece, NOT the crazy spending habits. They did of course not help, but the lack of trust of the Greek government is the root cause of the Greek economic melt down, which is based in the fact that the Greek government under conservative leadership hid debt with the help of the US banks in question.
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lol you're blaming the conservative government with the debt crisis in Greece? Just one question, are you out of your ****ing mind?
 
Zimmer's right. High time these mavro stavro pezevenki shistos gamore Greek's face up to there lies.
 
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Agent Ferris said:
lol you're blaming the conservative government with the debt crisis in Greece? Just one question, are you out of your ****ing mind?
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Yes he is, but on this particular aspect I'm afraid he has a point. You can argue that their overspending is due to socialist policies BUT, it was the conservative party who lied about the deficit.
 
''Greece is considering taking legal action against U.S. investment banks that might have contributed to the country’s debt crisis, Prime Minister George Papandreou said.''

Well, Greece should have taken more steps to avoid the crisis before it happened...
 
the central bank has taken what it previously called the nuke option, which it pledged never to pull, by purchasing public debt of certain unnamed but obviously struggling eu nations

FRANKFURT — The European Central Bank disclosed Monday that it had bought 16.5 billion euros in bonds in the first week since taking the unprecedented step of intervening in markets to halt a sell-off of Greek and other European debt.

The bank did not say which countries’ debt it was buying, how much it would spend in the future, or whether it bought any corporate bonds. The 16.5 billion euros ($21 billion) was considered a relatively small amount for the market.

Analysts said the bank would want to keep investors guessing to maximize the psychological impact of the move.
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wow!

remember, obama and tax cheat in chief geithner have smuged THEIR overspending fingerprints all over this profligacy

meanwhile, the plague as predicted spreads

Europe?s Debt Crisis Casts a Shadow Over China - NYTimes.com

china's currency is pressed up, her markets dragged down

remember obama's promise to double exports in his sotu?

the times does

our prez is totally inept

ominous: the vigilantes are vowing violence (institutional investors, mutual funds, pension funds, "bond market heavy hitters")

Sovereign debt 'vigilantes' make Europe pay - MarketWatch

one of em, mr gross, chief investment officer at pemco, spits contempt for the credit ratings agencies:

"Oooh -- so tough!" Gross wrote with undisguised sarcasm in his May monthly commentary. "And believe it or not, [rating agencies] Moody's and Fitch still have [Spain's debt] as AAAs. Here's a country with 20% unemployment, a recent current account deficit of 10%, that has defaulted 13 times in the past two centuries, whose bonds are already trading at Baa levels, and whose fate is increasingly dependent on the kindness of the [European Union] and the [International Monetary Fund] to bail them out. Some AAA!"
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all too predictable
 
greece's deputy tourism minister angela gerekou, a former topless model, resigned yesterday over SIX POINT EIGHT MILLION DOLLARS of unpaid personal taxes

News Headlines

THIS is the situation obtuse obama and his tax avoiding treasurer UNDERWRITE

good luck with all that...
 
PeteEU said:
No it was not his finance ministry. It was the previous conservative government's ministry.
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"Conservative" government? When has a gov't in greece, regardless of what some label it, been able to implement true conservative policies?

No that is not what happened. The Banks came with a new fancy product they were peddling and the Greeks bought it. It is the same crap that brought down AIG and others.
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Please tell me you are fuc-ing kidding me...oh, those poor, poor addicted-to-debt Greek politicians, they just HAD to buy what the drug dealer banks were selling, they had NO choice...please tell me your smarter than what you wrote...:doh

Of course, but that does not excuse the investment banks helping the previous government hide the Greek debt from the auditors.. does it now..
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Genius - that is their JOB! Like accountants or tax attorneys, their JOB is to help their clients (i.e., Greek gov't) reduce taxes/debt whatever...

What kind of ignorant, immature nonsense are you spewing... :confused:

They are paid to do that, have you ever had a real job?
 
PeteEU said:
This has to do with the banks helping the previous government, a conservative lead government, hide the debt of the Greek state. The hiding of the debt caused the problem with Greece, NOT the crazy spending habits.
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Wrong, you are just so wrong...ugh...

Think for a second before responding - and address this question before you do...how did this debt get created in the first place?

If you can grasp the meaning behind the question, then maybe you can understand the larger issue.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is Greece did not approach them.. the banks approached Greece with a product designed to hide the debt.
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SO WHO FORCED THE GREEK GOV'T TO BUY IT?

Are you a troll, your posts are so unbearably stupid.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is Greece did not approach them.. the banks approached Greece with a product designed to hide the debt. They were advised by the bank that it was legal and no problem. That was very bad advice and considering the information we have been getting on these very banks playing both sides of the track.. then the question arises if the banks set up Greece (and others) to fail so the banks could earn trillions.

There is this thing of aiding a criminal or illegal act.. which is what the banks did.
Click to expand...

With Petey's logic, I put forth that Petey, if approached by a prostitute, would accept the come-on, then complain to his wife that he was given bad advice, a slick sales pitch with unbeatable audio and visuals. He would defend his betrayal with the simple,"the problem is I did not approach her... she approached me with a product designed to hide baloney. She advised that it was legal and no problem. It was very bad advice (as my wife let me know with a flying steel lamp)​

According to Petey, it's the prostitute's fault.

.
 
Here is another take:

Who knew the instrument would not work?

It may have.

And with that I will paraphrase an old saying: What bright ones so do in the beginning is quickly followed by fools.

I'm not savvy enough to know who has used this instrument before or how long it has been on the market. They bought into something they shouldn't have as stewards of the public trust. They did.

But then again, socialism as... Medicaid, Medicare, The Grate Society, Raw Deal, Social Security, and ObamaKare are schemes with horrific end results. Greece, The US... USSR or DDR... it's all a time bomb. Some with longer, slower burning wicks (which allows correction), some... like the USSR exploded in a little more than a handful of generations.

The late 1960's, early 70's were rife with investor idiocy, so much so Warren Buffett pulled out of the market and awaited the fall-out. Shouldn't Greece's best know what this plebe understands?

Isn't it interesting how the bright minds of a free country could so sell themselves and their country out for... power? Have they no knowledge of history, or were they, like all socialist programs... speculators betting on a terribly low odds game? Who cared, it wasn't their cash. They knew better too, and hell... giving something for nothing is an attractive, easy though whorish business... but it's an easy, cheap (for the whore) way to gain power.

The Greeks took their arrogance to another level with retirement at an age you are at your best, your most productive for society? That's one huge element lost in the grand equation.

Either that are so ignorant they believe a society can get along with early retirement for employees as the individual had to pay for it. But the reality is... there are not enough of such individuals or businesses. And their punitive ways do not foster individualism but dependency.

Greece got theirs... as will Europe and most likely Kanuckistan (their healthcare system is a rot and it is what did in the US car companies... if it doesn't work for the car companies, why will it work for a massive, detached bureaucracy?). Their markets are laden with rules and regs that make it tough to start up. That makes is largely different from the US, even though we are burdened and regulated beyond sanity.

Greece may have done the world a favor by decomposing so fast. Too bad the EU didn't get Greece to pare down to the bone before delivering a penny.

Huge mistake.

.
 
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another dismal day

dow dropped 80 points in the last 15 minutes yesterday, fell 200 in the first 2:00 this morning

nikkei's down 3.1% (again) on the day, seoul's markets minus 2.75%

at least 6 of the last 10 days have seen these devastating drops in international markets, england's ftse, france's cac, deutschland's dax...

shanghai, japan, singapore, south korea...

it's in asia, bigtime

so are hillary and tax cheat geithner

our troubled treas secty sees rosy glasses

the chinese, in complete contrast, TALK LIKE ADULTS

the vix, which measures volatility, jumped 5.7%, up 80% this month

and you can kiss goodbye to credit as bankers worldwide are near panic

worry

Wall Street Tumbles and Euro Weakens - NYTimes.com

Euro Falls on Concern Spain?s Bank Woes Signal Crisis Spreading - Bloomberg.com

Stocks drop after euro slumps, Dow falls below 10K - Yahoo! Finance

Dow Falls Under 10000 as Risk Is Shunned - WSJ.com

News Headlines

Europe's Banks Hit By Rising Loan Costs - WSJ.com
 
have you heard the latest from europe?

very bad news, no spin

fitch downgraded spain's aaa rating, a devastating development

Credit rating cut deals blow to Spain - Yahoo! Finance

the ecb announced it was upping its purchase of govt debt, a move it last month called a "nuclear option" it would never take, as it anticipates another wave of bank failures coming

TOPWRAP 3-ECB warns of more bank loan losses, ups bond purchase | Reuters

eu unemployment reached an all time hi in april, and private sector growth is slowest since lehmans

EU jobless hits record 10.1 per cent

the euro continues to plunge, reaching a new 4 year low tuesday

My Way News - Euro hits new 4-year low against dollar

international markets, already coming off a miserable month, continued to drop precipitously tuesday---england's ftse fell 1.96% on the day, france's cac lost 2.09, germany's dax dropped 1.73, the nikkei shrunk .6%, australia's s&p .4%, seoul's kospi minus .7%, taiwan's markets declined 1.2%, honk kong's hang seng decreased 1.4, shanghai's composite index .9%...

My Way News - World markets fall on Europe debt jitters

thus, the cebr is advising athens to DROP OUT of the euro so it can devalue its currency, ie, enact the inevitable

Greece urged to give up euro - Times Online

meanwhile, geithner in china continues all his happy talk but the adults in beijung aren't buying

News Headlines

hu refuses to renegotiate currency, even tho bernanke claims the inequitable valuation of the yuan is one of the prime causes that brought us all here

Hu says China to hold firm on yuan policy

all these things are interconnected, like the oil in the gulf, the saber rattling on the 38th parallel, the shooting of blockade runners in international waters off gaza, the collapse of american housing...

all of which contributes to the dow's worst may since 1940

U.S. Stocks, Oil, Euro Tumble; Dow Ends Worst May Since 1940 - Bloomberg.com

no spin, folks

sorry
 
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