• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Where's the oil? Model suggests much may be gone

NoJingoLingo said:
Yeah, it's just a little spill, we'll get it cleaned up. No Problem, oil is great and we shouldn't let s little oil spillage here and there stop us from, drill baby drill...


Continued in next post
Click to expand...

God dammit, would you quite spamming the thread, you <insert namecalling that would get me gigged by a mod>! Get a ****ing clue, troll.
 
Last edited:
reefedjib said:
Please explain why BP should foot the bill? My understanding is that a third party set the blowout protector (is that the right name for it?) that failed. Furthermore, the damage being done exceeds the potential profits they could have had. I think the government should pay for the disaster, with some limited charges to BP. If BP has to pay the whole bill, then potential costs may make drilling unaffordable from an insurance standpoint. We want to encourage safe drilling, right?
Click to expand...

You mean to say that you feel you should have to pay for something BP was paying to do?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
You mean to say that you feel you should have to pay for something BP was paying to do?
Click to expand...

No, I meant to say what I said or I would not have said it.

Now you are trying to put words in my mouth and I don't even understand them. BP was not paying for the disaster, which is separate from the drilling. I do think we should all pay for the disaster.
 
reefedjib said:
No, I meant to say what I said or I would not have said it.

Now you are trying to put words in my mouth and I don't even understand them. BP was not paying for the disaster, which is separate from the drilling. I do think we should all pay for the disaster.
Click to expand...

BP was paying for the drilling, as such it has a responsibility to ensure its contractors are responsible and are following all regulations and as the well is BP's it has a responsiblity for any damage resulting from the well, just as it would have profited from it.


I dont see why the US taxpayer should pay for something that is primarily the responsibility of BP
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
BP was paying for the drilling, as such it has a responsibility to ensure its contractors are responsible and are following all regulations and as the well is BP's it has a responsiblity for any damage resulting from the well, just as it would have profited from it.


I dont see why the US taxpayer should pay for something that is primarily the responsibility of BP
Click to expand...

Because it is an ecological disaster.
 
reefedjib said:
No, it exceeds their responsibility. FEMA should pay.
Click to expand...
It was BP's faulty equipment and ignoring safety protocols that was the major contributor to causing the accident, why should FEMA pay?
 
reefedjib said:
Please explain why BP should foot the bill? My understanding is that a third party set the blowout protector (is that the right name for it?) that failed. Furthermore, the damage being done exceeds the potential profits they could have had. I think the government should pay for the disaster, with some limited charges to BP. If BP has to pay the whole bill, then potential costs may make drilling unaffordable from an insurance standpoint. We want to encourage safe drilling, right?
Click to expand...


I understand where you are coming from here, however, maybe the costs can be shared by all responsible parties. My saying that BP should foot the bill for the clean up is rooted in the fact that whom ever BP hires to install fail safes or any other piece of equipment it is up to them to make sure that these things work.

for instance, if you buy a house from a developer, and the electrical was improperly installed, later causing a fire that burned down the house. Sure you would go after the electrical contractor right? But, you would also go after the developer because the onus through inspection is also on him to make sure the work is done right.


j-mac
 
Hoplite said:
It was BP's faulty equipment and ignoring safety protocols that was the major contributor to causing the accident, why should FEMA pay?
Click to expand...


Maybe I am behind, what is the safety protocol that was ignored?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Maybe I am behind, what is the safety protocol that was ignored?


j-mac
Click to expand...

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20100512/Stupak.Opening.05.12.2010.pdf

"Second, we learned that the blowout preventer had been modified in unexpected ways. One of these modifications was potentially significant. The blowout preventer has an underwater control panel. BP spent a day trying to use this control panel to activate a variable bore ram on the blowout preventer that is designed to seal tight around any pipe in the well. When they investigated why their attempts failed to activate the bore ram, they learned that the device had been modified. A useless test ram – not the variable bore ram – had been connected to the socket that was supposed to activate the variable bore ram. An entire day’s worth of precious time had been spent engaging rams that closed the wrong way.

BP told us the modifications on the BOP were extensive. After the accident, they asked Transocean for drawings of the blowout preventer. Because of the modifications, the drawings they received didn’t match the structure on the ocean floor. BP said they wasted many hours figuring this out."


reefedjib said:
Please explain why BP should foot the bill?
Click to expand...
It was their equipment that caused the accident.

My understanding is that a third party set the blowout protector (is that the right name for it?) that failed.
Click to expand...
It was BP's responsibility to ensure what they bought and used worked properly. Either they did that and they missed this problem (which isnt true because we know they modified the device) or they didnt check it and are liable.

Furthermore, the damage being done exceeds the potential profits they could have had.
Click to expand...
Too bad.

I think the government should pay for the disaster, with some limited charges to BP. If BP has to pay the whole bill, then potential costs may make drilling unaffordable from an insurance standpoint. We want to encourage safe drilling, right?
Click to expand...
Other companies can avoid insurance hikes by ensuring their equipment is functioning properly
 
Last edited:
Hoplite said:
It was BP's faulty equipment and ignoring safety protocols that was the major contributor to causing the accident, why should FEMA pay?
Click to expand...

j-mac said:
I understand where you are coming from here, however, maybe the costs can be shared by all responsible parties. My saying that BP should foot the bill for the clean up is rooted in the fact that whom ever BP hires to install fail safes or any other piece of equipment it is up to them to make sure that these things work.

for instance, if you buy a house from a developer, and the electrical was improperly installed, later causing a fire that burned down the house. Sure you would go after the electrical contractor right? But, you would also go after the developer because the onus through inspection is also on him to make sure the work is done right.


j-mac
Click to expand...

Hoplite said:
It was their equipment that caused the accident.

It was BP's responsibility to ensure what they bought and used worked properly. Either they did that and they missed this problem (which isnt true because we know they modified the device) or they didnt check it and are liable.

Too bad.

Other companies can avoid insurance hikes by ensuring their equipment is functioning properly
Click to expand...

I understand what you all are saying. My reasoning is that due to the size and scope of the disaster, and to protect the industry from exorbitant insurance costs to protect them from having to pay in such a disaster, the federal government needs to foot the bill for the majority of this disaster.

I would be okay with charging BP and friends a percentage of revenues to go into a government disaster fund.
 
Models are nice and comforting. Let's wait until the disaster is contained on the sea bed and there is a proper damage assessment before we jump to conclusions.
 
RightinNYC said:
Well, we'll just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

Nothing in that article is inconsistent with the one I posted.
Click to expand...

Except for what was inconsistent. :roll: Your article quoted one person, who worked for NOAA, and conveniently left out his comments that NOAA was not capable of following the oil flow which Huff did include.

Why am I not surprised that HuffPost spins it in the most dramatic fashion possible, or that you are eager to eat it up?
Click to expand...

Possibly because you rightees always choose to only believe what fits your desired outcome. It's always funny watching your kind claim that a quote from a scientist is :spin: simply because it doesn't support your position. What he said up to a point was fine, until he said something you didn't like.

Oh, well as long as it's got the ADK_Forever mathematical seal of approval, I guess you're right.
Click to expand...

That was really just a simple concept. The fact that you can't agree with it, that you have to use a personal attack to try to discredit simple math shows the weakness of your argument.

Because I found it interesting? Because it's a nice counterpoint to the OH NOES WE GON DIE!!!! angle being hyped by people like ADK_Forever?
Click to expand...

That's not my "angle" at all and you know it. I guess it's beyond you to simply argue or discuss a point without personal attacks, ehh:confused:
 
reefedjib said:
I understand what you all are saying. My reasoning is that due to the size and scope of the disaster, and to protect the industry from exorbitant insurance costs to protect them from having to pay in such a disaster, the federal government needs to foot the bill for the majority of this disaster.

I would be okay with charging BP and friends a percentage of revenues to go into a government disaster fund.
Click to expand...


Ultimately they will, and that will be the catalyst for Obama to gain control of the oil industry just like he did to the banks.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Ultimately they will, and that will be the catalyst for Obama to gain control of the oil industry just like he did to the banks.
Click to expand...

You mean to "get it under control", I'm sure. :cool:
 
reefedjib said:
God dammit, would you quite spamming the thread, you <insert namecalling that would get me gigged by a mod>! Get a ****ing clue, troll.
Click to expand...
I'd say you've gone a little overboard. Here's a clue for YOU, I posted a very long list of oil spills that was so long it had to be split into multiple posts. That is not spamming.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
I'd say you've gone a little overboard. Here's a clue for YOU, I posted a very long list of oil spills that was so long it had to be split into multiple posts. That is not spamming.
Click to expand...

Next time, use a link.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
I'd say you've gone a little overboard. Here's a clue for YOU, I posted a very long list of oil spills that was so long it had to be split into multiple posts....
Click to expand...

OMG, how is there any sea life left? :roll:

It will get cleaned up, newer better protocols will be adapted, nature will once again show its amazing ability to recover from disaster and all the hand wringing will be for naught, once again.
 
Hoplite said:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20100512/Stupak.Opening.05.12.2010.pdf

"Second, we learned that the blowout preventer had been modified in unexpected ways. One of these modifications was potentially significant. The blowout preventer has an underwater control panel. BP spent a day trying to use this control panel to activate a variable bore ram on the blowout preventer that is designed to seal tight around any pipe in the well. When they investigated why their attempts failed to activate the bore ram, they learned that the device had been modified. A useless test ram – not the variable bore ram – had been connected to the socket that was supposed to activate the variable bore ram. An entire day’s worth of precious time had been spent engaging rams that closed the wrong way.

BP told us the modifications on the BOP were extensive. After the accident, they asked Transocean for drawings of the blowout preventer. Because of the modifications, the drawings they received didn’t match the structure on the ocean floor. BP said they wasted many hours figuring this out."


It was their equipment that caused the accident.

It was BP's responsibility to ensure what they bought and used worked properly. Either they did that and they missed this problem (which isnt true because we know they modified the device) or they didnt check it and are liable.

Too bad.

Other companies can avoid insurance hikes by ensuring their equipment is functioning properly
Click to expand...



Other companies will have raised rates because of this, its how insurance companies spread the risk, and pay for this incident.
 
reefedjib said:
I understand what you all are saying. My reasoning is that due to the size and scope of the disaster, and to protect the industry from exorbitant insurance costs to protect them from having to pay in such a disaster, the federal government needs to foot the bill for the majority of this disaster.

I would be okay with charging BP and friends a percentage of revenues to go into a government disaster fund.
Click to expand...
Why should we protect the industry from the costs? They screwed up. Why are you so hot to protect a business that screwed up?

Why do Conservatives give the "free market" thing the boot the second something goes sideways?

When it's individuals who are in trouble "**** you, lazy bastards!" But when it's companies...all of a sudden they need to be forgiven and protected.
 
Last edited:
Hoplite said:
Why should we protect the industry from the costs? They screwed up. Why are you so hot to protect a business that screwed up?

Why do Conservatives give the "free market" thing the boot the second something goes sideways?

When it's individuals who are in trouble "**** you, lazy bastards!" But when it's companies...all of a sudden they need to be forgiven and protected.
Click to expand...

First, I am not a conservative.

Second, the government provides assistance to all sorts of market segments, to protect and promote them.

Third, there is already a cap to what BP would pay

Fourth, to have them pay the whole amount would see congress rewrite the rules and this would be a cost unexpected by the company.

Fifth, I think it is the right thing to do. The disaster is much bigger than we should expect a company to pay for.
 
reefedjib said:
First, I am not a conservative.
Click to expand...
My bad, you advance a position that I would expect to see of a Conservative.

Second, the government provides assistance to all sorts of market segments, to protect and promote them.
Click to expand...
Promoting struggling sectors of our economy or providing low-cost loans and assistance to businesses that are struggling is one thing. BP screwed up because they couldnt be bothered to follow the safety guidelines.

If it bankrupts the company, no that's not good, but that's the price of screwing up. The obvious solution is NOT to do what caused the accident in the first place.

Third, there is already a cap to what BP would pay
Click to expand...
Which I feel is wrong.

Fourth, to have them pay the whole amount would see congress rewrite the rules and this would be a cost unexpected by the company.
Click to expand...
I'm shedding very few tears for BP. This is not a company that does it's business with any serious grip on morality.

BP pays out millions to Colombian farmers - Americas, World - The Independent

Baku?Tbilisi?Ceyhan pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to play fast and loose, fine. But dont complain when it bites you in the ass.

Fifth, I think it is the right thing to do. The disaster is much bigger than we should expect a company to pay for.
Click to expand...
Why? BP essentially caused this disaster by NOT following safety regulations that could have prevented the disaster. Why is it unreasonable to expect BP to pay for the mess they made?
 
WI Crippler said:
OMG, how is there any sea life left? :roll:

It will get cleaned up, newer better protocols will be adapted, nature will once again show its amazing ability to recover from disaster and all the hand wringing will be for naught, once again.
Click to expand...

Mother Nature has a threshold. There have been instances when she didn't fully recover from man-made pollution. Hopefully, it's not the case here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom