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U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
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WASHINGTON — The Obama administration’s decision to authorize the killing by the Central Intelligence Agency of a terrorism suspect who is an American citizen ...

The notion that the government can, in effect, execute one of its own citizens far from a combat zone, with no judicial process and based on secret intelligence...

Oh, how rich.

Team Obi finds water boarding repulsive, but assassination acceptable.

Nice little ethical box Obi and his trons have to play with.

.
 
Oh, how rich.

Team Obi finds water boarding repulsive, but assassination acceptable.

Nice little ethical box Obi and his trons have to play with.

.

Under the Laws of War and the U.S. Constitution, there is no ethical dilemma. Combatants can be targeted as military objectives. That a person is a U.S. citizen does not render him immune from his being a military objective. The individual in question is carrying out a command-and-control function and is properly a military objective.

In the end, even as some raise questions about the executive order, the U.S. Supreme Court is not likely to reverse it. It may even choose not to hear any cases on the issue unless there are some new issues beyond the individual's being a U.S. citizen, as the matter whether U.S. citizens can be targeted when they serve as enemy combatants is settled law.
 
Under the Laws of War and the U.S. Constitution, there is no ethical dilemma. Combatants can be targeted as military objectives. That a person is a U.S. citizen does not render him immune from his being a military objective. The individual in question is carrying out a command-and-control function and is properly a military objective.

In the end, even as some raise questions about the executive order, the U.S. Supreme Court is not likely to reverse it. It may even choose not to hear any cases on the issue unless there are some new issues beyond the individual's being a U.S. citizen, as the matter whether U.S. citizens can be targeted when they serve as enemy combatants is settled law.

Agreed. It's just the way things are done.
 
Under the Laws of War and the U.S. Constitution, there is no ethical dilemma. Combatants can be targeted as military objectives. That a person is a U.S. citizen does not render him immune from his being a military objective. The individual in question is carrying out a command-and-control function and is properly a military objective.

In the end, even as some raise questions about the executive order, the U.S. Supreme Court is not likely to reverse it. It may even choose not to hear any cases on the issue unless there are some new issues beyond the individual's being a U.S. citizen, as the matter whether U.S. citizens can be targeted when they serve as enemy combatants is settled law.

I have no problem with it.

My point is, waterboarding isn't torture but the left saw it as the equal of Mengele's behavior. We have that history, and now we have a targeted assassination of an American citizen abroad and it is ignored by the same individuals.

Just look at the outrage by the leftists in this thread... LOL.

.
 
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Under the Laws of War and the U.S. Constitution,

REALLY???!!!

Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 3 - Treason Note

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

I have no problem assassinating alien unlawful combatants or denying them Habeas Corpus in civilian court but when it comes to U.S. citizens I have a huge ****ing problem with it.
 
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Oh, how rich.

Team Obi finds water boarding repulsive, but assassination acceptable.

Nice little ethical box Obi and his trons have to play with.

.

Sometimes you can reach too far for something that isnt there. There is nothing unethical about taking out a terrorist...regardless of his country of birth.
 
Sometimes you can reach too far for something that isnt there. There is nothing unethical about taking out a terrorist...regardless of his country of birth.

There's nothing unethical about the U.S. government executing a U.S. citizen without due process? RU you freaking kidding me???!!!
 
There's nothing unethical about the U.S. government executing a U.S. citizen without due process? RU you freaking kidding me???!!!

not when that citizen is in a foreign country advocating the violent overthrow of the US.

Ask yourself a simple question...if it were a conservative president doing it wouod you be equally 'outraged'? I somehow doubt it.
 
I have the belief that if an American leaves US soil and sides with the enemy against the US then he is no longer a US citizen . Therefore he is free game just as much as Osama Bin Laden or any other terrorist is.
 
I have the belief that if an American leaves US soil and sides with the enemy against the US then he is no longer a US citizen . Therefore he is free game just as much as Osama Bin Laden or any other terrorist is.

Yes, but how do you prove he IS siding with the enemy, if not through due process? When it comes to assassinating US citizens, shouldn't we have more than just the president's say-so?
 
ethics are for eagle scouts

meanwhile, the politics of this are poisonous

mutallab must be mirandized, ksm must go on judge judy, a court order must ok a wiretap...

but a new mexican born madman can be murdered in his yemeni bedroom, just like that

by DRONE

this instance of intrinsic incoherence is just like the no bid to halliburton, the non closure of gitmo, the ESCALATION of afghanistan even tho the enemy is largely in pakistan---our amateurish administration is coming to appreciate the awesome distinctions between campaigning, ie, cheap posturing, and governance

the first is easy, the latter---IN TIMES LIKE THESE---requires REAL ABILITY

obama and holder and brennan and napolitano, et al, simply are not UP TO IT, as pretty much all, by now, can see
 
if it were a conservative president doing it would you be equally 'outraged'?

if we had a conservative president his or her policy would be coherent, it would hang together and make sense

it wouldn't be ad libbed, fly by night, impromptu, half baked and amateurish

it would be adult, responsible

THIS gullible group, in contrast, when it comes to iran has NO policy

concerning the cartels, SQUAT

chinese currency, sanctions, korea, palestinian peace---we are leaderless

syria is now sidling up to the ex soviets

UPDATE 1-Russia says eyes atomic energy cooperation with Syria | Reuters

dc's answer---silence

we're spiraling into chaos, the falcon cannot hear the dumbfounded falconer
 
Oh, how rich.

Team Obi finds water boarding repulsive, but assassination acceptable.

Nice little ethical box Obi and his trons have to play with.

.
"conservative" says it all.
 
if we had a conservative president his or her policy would be coherent, it would hang together and make sense

it wouldn't be ad libbed, fly by night, impromptu, half baked and amateurish

it would be adult, responsible

THIS gullible group, in contrast, when it comes to iran has NO policy

concerning the cartels, SQUAT

chinese currency, sanctions, korea, palestinian peace---we are leaderless

syria is now sidling up to the ex soviets

UPDATE 1-Russia says eyes atomic energy cooperation with Syria | Reuters

dc's answer---silence

we're spiraling into chaos, the falcon cannot hear the dumbfounded falconer

OK...and Im not arguing that his policy is coherent or even well thought out...but if Im going to bang on liberals for their tendency to shift and now embrace everything Obama does even tho they hated Bush and everything he did, then I have to alos point it out when conservative minded folks do.

Maybe it would be more effective to point out the people making and embracing the polcy...not banging on the policy...one which by your own words would be acceptable if it was part of a cohesive policy that made sense.
 
I have no problem with it.

My point is, waterboarding isn't torture but the left saw it as the equal of Mengele's behavior. We have that history, and now we have a targeted assassination of an American citizen abroad and it is ignored by the same individuals.

Just look at the outrage by the leftists in this thread... LOL.

.

A man(regardless of politics) should be able to determine that waterboarding is a form of torture, this should not be the American way.
Are we not better than that?
This has nothing to do with left, right, inner or outer.
If you think it does; then how does this sound??
The conservatives favor torture and the liberals do not....
Tell this to your children.
 
The conservatives favor torture and the liberals do not....

and obama EXECUTES the ASSASSINATION of american CITIZENS deprived of DUE PROCESS

(but nigerians must be mirandized and 9-11 authors must go before the likes of lance ito in lower manhattan)

tell the kids THAT, even THEY'LL see the absurdity
 
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when's that meeting with the leaders of iran gonna go down, sans preconditions?
 
Thank God the Bush administration had the time, the patriotism and the fortitude to make the sacrifices to provide that "coherent" structure to deal with this war because the current bunch are far from capable of doing anything coherent! I mean Napolitano as head of Homeland Security?! What an incredible insult to the Coast Guard and all the other agencies pulled under that unbrella. Holder... what a joke and a racist to boot. I'm grateful that the President is finally apparently noticing and appreciating the Bush administration viewpoint. Maybe there is hope and he isn't trying to destroy the country.

If a US citizen is in an enemy camp and aiding and abetting the enemy he is definitely a legitimate target and should be taken out as with haste. However, if that same citizen is on US soil he should be arrested and dealt with as a traitor and then killed. Treason is a capital crime.
 
not when that citizen is in a foreign country advocating the violent overthrow of the US.

So being in a foreign country dictates that the citizen is no longer entitled to due process? I can understand if the guy gets shot during a firefight or blown up in an attack on an AQ or Taliban base camp, but to go out and target specific individual U.S. citizens for assassination is quite another story.

Ask yourself a simple question...if it were a conservative president doing it wouod you be equally 'outraged'? I somehow doubt it.

I'm an anarchist not a conservative.
 
I have the belief that if an American leaves US soil and sides with the enemy against the US then he is no longer a US citizen . Therefore he is free game just as much as Osama Bin Laden or any other terrorist is.

But here's the problem, if there's no due process then how can we determine for sure that he has sided with the enemy? Perhaps he/she is being threatened into cooperation with the enemy. By your standards it would have been fine and dandy to target U.S. POWs in Vietnam who were tortured into making videos denouncing the U.S. and promoting the cause of the VC. Without due process it is impossible to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are in fact guilty of treason.
 
So being in a foreign country dictates that the citizen is no longer entitled to due process? I can understand if the guy gets shot during a firefight or blown up in an attack on an AQ or Taliban base camp, but to go out and target specific individual U.S. citizens for assassination is quite another story.



I'm an anarchist not a conservative.

Auuuyup...Id say thats the point where I side with the Obama administration...
 
not when that citizen is in a foreign country advocating the violent overthrow of the US.

Ask yourself a simple question...if it were a conservative president doing it wouod you be equally 'outraged'? I somehow doubt it.

YES.

(ten characters)
 
Assassination is acceptable in the time of war, if I am not mistaken.

However waterboarding is torture via the International law by the UN.


Hell even a Conservative Talk show host said it was Torture. He lasted about six seconds which he stated he could last a lot longer.Mancow Waterboarded, Now Agrees It's Torture (Video)
 
Assassination is acceptable in the time of war, if I am not mistaken.

The execution of U.S. citizens by the U.S. government is never legal under the U.S. Constitution without due process. A person can only be convicted of treason under very specific conditions.

However waterboarding is torture via the International law by the UN.

Actually no under both the U.N.Convention Against Torture, as well as, under domestic statute 18 U.S.C. § 2340, the definition of torture is completely subjective in that in both cases it is defined with the qualifier of "severe" mental or physical pain. Severe for some may not be severe for others, I consider being forced to listen to rap music to cause severe mental pain. Subjectivity has no place in a law; such as, this, there needs to be a strict set of interrogation techniques that can and can not be allowed.

Hell even a Conservative Talk show host said it was Torture. He lasted about six seconds which he stated he could last a lot longer.Mancow Waterboarded, Now Agrees It's Torture (Video)


A) Have you ever even listened to the Mancow show? He's a shock jock not a right wing talking head.

B) Well if Mancow says it then I guess it must be true.
 
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