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Thread: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Are you SERIOUSLY this ****ing slow? YES...I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that when any assclown decides to leave our fair shores and take up residence in another land and plots volent acts against this country ala terrorism, then by all means...I WANT my government to go all gansta on his ass. YES! YES! have you got it yet? Or would you care to ask yet ANOTHER redundant question?
    Well then I suggest you change your political stance from libertarian to fascist, because you're certainly not for the non-aggression principle.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Well then I suggest you change your political stance from libertarian to fascist, because you're certainly not for the non-aggression principle.
    Oh GOODY...another person that want to define me because I dare to disagree with the 'traditional' label of Libertarian. But perhaps you can point to the code where it says no libertarians believe terrorists from Amesrica should recieve special treatment as opposed to their non American terrorist brethren. Dont worry...I SHANT be waiting.

    Oh...and major shocker...Ive suggested that the Libertarian party DROP its platform on legalizing drugs too! I know...GASP! Why....if they did that they might become...****ing RELEVANT...

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is why I have absolutely no faith in the Constitution as anything more than something people hide behind when it suits them. The same people who would support our government blowing the citizen of another country simply because he's been declared a terrorist are up in arms about a confirmed American terrorist being blown up.
    Warfare is another matter than treason, what he is accused of is treason and as such has the right to due process it's not like he's in the trenches wearing an enemy uniform firing on U.S. soldiers. It would be one thing if it was a battlefield situation where this guy was directing a squad of AQ or Taliban it is quite another matter going around the world targeting U.S. citizens for assassination without a fair trial. Do I think the guy is guilty as ****? Yes I do. Would I like to see him rot away the rest of his life in a supermax prison? Why yes I would. Do I want to set a precedent in which it is acceptable for the state to kill its own citizens without a trial or any due process whatsoever? Hell no I don't and anyone who does needs to learn a thing or two from history when the state obtains the power of life and death over those which it governs.

    What? Do the basic rights granted to all men by their creator only apply if you're lucky enough to be born here? I guess so.
    [/quote]

    The Declaration of Independence does not have the force of law. And yes the Constitution should only apply to U.S. citizens and those under U.S. jurisdiction; such as, legal resident aliens. But on the flip side I would, also, support capture of non-battlefield alien terrorists over assassination whenever possible, they are a valuable source of intelligence, it avoids collateral damage, and it's good for both morale and positive propaganda, even though some would rather paint military tribunals for alien unlawful combatants as a negative rather than a positive thing.


    Where were all these people when parts of the Patriot Act were struck down? Where were all these people when the Bush administration was trying to justify wiretapping American citizens? But we bomb one Americana-born camel jockey who we can verify as having helped plan various terrorist plots and all the sudden you're up in arms about it? Spare me for not really caring at this point in history who bombs terrorists anymore as long as the job is done.
    If they can verify it then why not give him a trial in absentia? Did you support or oppose civilian trials for alien unlawful combatants?

    **** him. He made his bed. He forfeited his American citizenship by declaring himself an enemy of the state and then carrying out acts against it. Let him sleep in that bed. Permanently.
    To my knowledge he has never renounced his U.S. citizenship.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Oh GOODY...another person that want to define me because I dare to disagree with the 'traditional' label of Libertarian. But perhaps you can point to the code where it says no libertarians believe terrorists from Amesrica should recieve special treatment as opposed to their non American terrorist brethren. Dont worry...I SHANT be waiting.

    Oh...and major shocker...Ive suggested that the Libertarian party DROP its platform on legalizing drugs too! I know...GASP! Why....if they did that they might become...****ing RELEVANT...
    So what exactly makes you a libertarian? The central plank of the Libertarian philosophy is the non-aggression principle and the right to self ownership, you can not be both a libertarian and pro-execution of U.S. citizens without a trial and you can not be a libertarian while supporting drug prohibition. They are mutually exclusive concepts.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    So what exactly makes you a libertarian? The central plank of the Libertarian philosophy is the non-aggression principle and the right to self ownership, you can not be both a libertarian and pro-execution of U.S. citizens without a trial and you can not be a libertarian while supporting drug prohibition. They are mutually exclusive concepts.
    You think playing pattycake with a homegrown terrorist somehow makes you a superior libertarian? You think being born in the US somehow excuses terrorist behavior to the point where we should target all others...but by birthright...not them?

    I believe in the rights of the individula first, state second, fed last. I believe in consitituional limitations on the federal government. i believe in allowing citizens to first govern themselves and then states.

    I dont think the federal government should be dictating state law with regard to drugs. i personally couldnt care less if someone chooses to fry their brain on drugs...I just think there IS some room for law with regard to drug use. But that law should be established locally.

    The Libertarian party has exactly HOW MANY federal representatives? You could be born with nubs for hands and still have plenty of 'fingers' to count them on. That PROBABLY is an indicator of how STUPID the rest of the voting public views 'traditional' libertarian ideals which is why they need to CHANGE if they ever hope to be relevant. Surely you are bright enough to see that.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You think playing pattycake with a homegrown terrorist somehow makes you a superior libertarian? You think being born in the US somehow excuses terrorist behavior to the point where we should target all others...but by birthright...not them?
    Yes a U.S. citizen should have more rights under the U.S. Constitution than a non-U.S. citizen not under U.S. jurisdiction. I believe that (except in a battlefield situation) all measures possible should be taken to capture suspected terrorists rather than executing them because a) they should receive some form of trial, and b) it's better for the war effort.

    I believe in the rights of the individula first, state second, fed last.
    lol and yet you don't believe in the rights of U.S. citizens to due process.

    I believe in consitituional limitations on the federal government.
    Limitations like not executing U.S. citizens without due process?

    i believe in allowing citizens to first govern themselves and then states.


    I dont think the federal government should be dictating state law with regard to drugs. i personally couldnt care less if someone chooses to fry their brain on drugs...I just think there IS some room for law with regard to drug use. But that law should be established locally.
    And what gives the state or local governments anymore rights to infringe upon the individuals right of self ownership than does the federal government? Collective tyranny at the state and local level is still tyranny.

    The Libertarian party has exactly HOW MANY federal representatives? You could be born with nubs for hands and still have plenty of 'fingers' to count them on. That PROBABLY is an indicator of how STUPID the rest of the voting public views 'traditional' libertarian ideals which is why they need to CHANGE if they ever hope to be relevant. Surely you are bright enough to see that.
    I bet if you took a blind poll on the platforms of individual parties more people would support the Libertarian party than any other, it's because the system is rigged against 3rd parties because of the moneyed interests of corporatism to keep state capitalists in power in order to keep their private monopolies safe from competition through the use of coercive force engendered by the monopoly of the state.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-15-10 at 11:27 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Yes a U.S. citizen should have more rights under the U.S. Constitution than a non-U.S. citizen not under U.S. jurisdiction. I believe that (except in a battlefield situation) all measures possible should be taken to capture suspected terrorists rather than executing them because a) they should receive some form of trial, and b) it's better for the war effort.



    lol and yet you don't believe in the rights of U.S. citizens to due process.



    Limitations like not executing U.S. citizens without due process?



    And what gives the state or local governments anymore rights to infringe upon the individuals right of self ownership than does the federal government? Collective tyranny at the state and local level is still tyranny.



    I bet if you took a blind poll on the platforms of individual parties more people would support the Libertarian party than any other, it's because the system is rigged against 3rd parties because of the moneyed interests of corporatism to keep state capitalists in power in order to keep their private monopolies safe from competition through the use of coercive force engendered by the monopoly of the state.
    I bet if you asked people that were paying attention to the Libertarian party you would find the reason they have no local representation is because at a state level they often run jackass candidates with hemp shirts and dreadlocks named Smoky McPot and instead of discussing relevant issues that MOST people agree with they get stuck on "umm...yeah dude...its like...peoples right to do drugs..."

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    Face palms, I will not approve of our right being violated, because it makes you feel a little bit safer in your head.
    LOL... I haven't come out one way or the other on the assasination, my point has been...

    HOW DOES THE LEFT SQUARE THIS AND WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE?

    Considering Obi was against waterboarding (a service nobody died from), yet he puts out shoot to kill orders on an American.

    This is the what?... 5th time I've tried to make this point, but you folks keep acting like President Snake.

    I know it's tough to swallow, but where is the outrage by the Left Army Faktion?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 05-16-10 at 06:37 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    You gave me one source, and I gave you something from the Freaking CIA.


    I can't respect a man for his opinion even thought that I don't believe in everything he stood for? What a blind hack you are Zimmer!
    You wanted a source, now you complain.
    Typical lib constantly moving the goal posts.

    BTW that One source... is exceptional, and from your camp of propo-journalists.

    If you listened, which you obviously didn't you would have heard Brian Ross speak about 14-cases from the CIA, many where it worked, some surprisingly fast, and the fact some in the CIA did not like waterboarding. The interview was based on research done within the CIA. Doh!

    Waterboarding stopped a major attack on an LA landmark, saving American lives but that means nothing. Lib-Logik at werk ag'in.

    Perhaps it would mean something if a terrorist pinpointed your hood for a little explosive TLC?

    Then you'd be the first and loudest whiner when your street would have been assaulted in an act of war. Especially if Bush had been running the show.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 05-16-10 at 06:43 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease

    uh oh

    the times is expressing her concern again

    U.S. Is Still Using Private Spy Ring, Despite Doubts - NYTimes.com

    you know what that means

    rendition, detention, escalations overseas, surrender on miranda, surrender on ksm, surrender on the cia, the failure to close gitmo, drone attacks vs civilian centers aimed by "secret networks of spies" of dubious legality...

    this is NOT what you voted for

    at least, it's NOT what the lady endorsed

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