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Thread: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    There is no world in which someone can safely use methamphetamine.

    I have no problem with legalizing marijuana, but legalization of cocaine, crack, methamphetamine, rohypnol, ecstasy and heroin should not happen, in my opinion.
    I think that we should legalize all drug use, however we can still give employers the right to fire people based on taking recreational drugs while employed.

    And if we do this, I think anyone who commits manslaughter while under the influence should automatically receive a life sentence, but can go on lifetime parole after 20 years. If someone's going to do drugs we're going to damn well make sure they can do so responsibly and they don't hurt anyone else when they do.

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I think that we should legalize all drug use, however we can still give employers the right to fire people based on taking recreational drugs while employed.

    And if we do this, I think anyone who commits manslaughter while under the influence should automatically receive a life sentence, but can go on lifetime parole after 20 years. If someone's going to do drugs we're going to damn well make sure they can do so responsibly and they don't hurt anyone else when they do.

    So, at bottom line it is a control thing?


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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, at bottom line it is a control thing?
    Bottom line, it's a coping thing.

    People take recreational drugs to cope with stress. That's the basic fundamental reason why they do. Now the kind of stress might be different. One guy might smoke a joint because he had a bad day at work, while someone else might drink every night because he's suffering from PTSD caused by some traumatic event in his life.

    Either way, they are both coping with their individual lives, and I think that costs and hardships in making those drugs criminal is more than the costs and hardships of those people using those drugs.

    So rather than spend all that money on criminalizing drugs, I say we should instead spend that money on prevention and treatment centers for those drug users who want to learn some other coping skills and stay off their addiction. For those who want to stay addicted or can't stay sober, I say we don't lock them in jail for it as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Bottom line, it's a coping thing.

    So is self injury, but we have mechanisms in place that don't allow that either.


    People take recreational drugs to cope with stress. That's the basic fundamental reason why they do. Now the kind of stress might be different. One guy might smoke a joint because he had a bad day at work, while someone else might drink every night because he's suffering from PTSD caused by some traumatic event in his life.

    So becoming a heroin addict is the only way to cope with PTSD? Legalizing this sort of behavior is a failure where it has been tried before.


    Either way, they are both coping with their individual lives, and I think that costs and hardships in making those drugs criminal is more than the costs and hardships of those people using those drugs.

    I will agree only to the point of inane, benign drugs such as pot. In other cases however, tough. I think that people make a choice to break the law, knowing that they are doing such.


    So rather than spend all that money on criminalizing drugs, I say we should instead spend that money on prevention and treatment centers for those drug users who want to learn some other coping skills and stay off their addiction. For those who want to stay addicted or can't stay sober, I say we don't lock them in jail for it as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

    Problem is, that in your scenario, someone has to get hurt, or killed before action.


    j-mac
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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So is self injury, but we have mechanisms in place that don't allow that either.
    But so is smoking, but that's legal now.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So becoming a heroin addict is the only way to cope with PTSD? Legalizing this sort of behavior is a failure where it has been tried before.
    I never said heroin use is the only way to cope with PTSD. The best way to cope with PTSD is to get counseling. However, for those who do cope with PTSD by using heroin I'd prefer that they use heroin to cope rather than be jailed with violent criminals who could do them harm, including rape and death, for their heroin use.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I will agree only to the point of inane, benign drugs such as pot. In other cases however, tough. I think that people make a choice to break the law, knowing that they are doing such.
    I don't think that that's a choice that people should make that breaks the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Problem is, that in your scenario, someone has to get hurt, or killed before action.
    The same could be said of vehicular manslaughter. Does that mean we should criminalize automobiles?
    Last edited by samsmart; 05-16-10 at 10:27 AM.

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    There is no world in which someone can safely use methamphetamine.

    I have no problem with legalizing marijuana, but legalization of cocaine, crack, methamphetamine, rohypnol, ecstasy and heroin should not happen, in my opinion.
    We need to legalize them all and treat the resulting drug problem rather than keeping them a criminal problem.

    You can safely use methamphetamine, crack, cocaine, ecstasy and heroin. Not sure about rohypnol.

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    We need to legalize them all and treat the resulting drug problem rather than keeping them a criminal problem.

    You can safely use methamphetamine, crack, cocaine, ecstasy and heroin. Not sure about rohypnol.

    If that is true then why are countries like Holland moving away from legal drug use?


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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If that is true then why are countries like Holland moving away from legal drug use?


    j-mac
    I don't know anything about it. Do you have a link?

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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't know anything about it. Do you have a link?

    Apparently, there has been some public dissatisfaction with the government’s policy. Recently the Dutch government began considering scaling back the quantity of marijuana available in coffee shops from 5 to 3 grams.

    Furthermore, drug abuse has increased in the Netherlands. From 1984 to 1996, marijuana use among 18-25 year olds in Holland increased twofold. Since legalization of marijuana, heroin addiction levels in Holland have tripled and perhaps even quadrupled by some estimates.

    The increasing use of marijuana is responsible for more than increased crime. It has widespread social implications as well. The head of Holland’s best-known drug abuse rehabilitation center has described what the new drug culture has created: The strong form of marijuana that most of the young people smoke, he says, produces “a chronically passive individual—someone who is lazy, who doesn’t want to take initiatives, doesn’t want to be active—the kid who’d prefer to lie in bed with a joint in the morning rather than getting up and doing something.”


    Speaking Out Against Drug Legalization, Fact 9


    Hmmm.....doesn't sound like Utopia to me.


    j-mac
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    Re: Drug Czar admits the drug war is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmm.....doesn't sound like Utopia to me.


    j-mac
    Well, I never claimed utopia, that's impossible. There are always trade-offs. I am not concerned with marijuana usage as its addictiveness is small. Users don't harm anyone. That they are unmotivated is their own problem, not the government's problem. Taking drugs is not criminal as others are not harmed.

    The increase of heroin use is a concern, since it IS a highly addictive drug. Making it illegal doesn't solve that problem, it only creates a criminal distribution problem we don't need. Addressing the addiction and increased use has to be by education.

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