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Thread: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea
    Call it by any name you want, but it is really just plain old Communism, disguised by feigned patriotism, and wrapped in the flag. Founding fathers be damned.
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Except that communism is an economic system and this decision has little to do with that....
    You have just both proven you know nothing of communism. One for calling what Arizona is doing 'communism' and the other for saying that communism is an economic system. Communism is a social structure and Arizona's laws fit nowhere within it. Arizona is trying to use vague language to discriminate against Hispanics. Simply and plain. 'Lawful contact' and anything that 'seems' like something they wouldn't want being taught in their schools. It's a backwards Jim Crow for the 21st century
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-14-10 at 03:03 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You have just both proven you know nothing of communism. One for calling what Arizona is doing 'communism' and the other for saying that communism is an economic system.
    Except that it is an economic system. Now who's just proven that he knows nothing of communism?

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, the purpose of college is not only to learn, but also to develop critical thinking skills, and not to parrot "facts" that are approved by the government.

    Let me also add that, for a group of people who claim to be Conservative, and wanting the government out of their lives, some of our Arizonans (not all, but many) are not acting Conservative at all, but are actually some of the most "statist" people in the United States, wanting more government control over its citizens, not less. Call it by any name you want, but it is really just plain old Communism, disguised by feigned patriotism, and wrapped in the flag. Founding fathers be damned.
    Word of note for everyone:

    This thread is not about college. This is happening within the public schools.

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    At first glance, that particular textbook does sound troubling. I'd like more info on the publisher--are they known for publishing textbooks that push a certain agenda?

    The story also mentions:

    If that statement might seem like a stretch to some, Arce has other important facts that are much harder to argue with. He grows most passionate when talking about the academic success of his ethnic studies students. "We have increased academic achievement levels, we have increased literacy rates in our classes, our college matriculation rates of students in our classes are around 80% for Latinos, and a national average is 25%."

    According to Arce's figures, kids participating in the ethnic studies program have a graduation rate of nearly 98%. By contrast, the national graduation rate for Mexican Americans is only 44%. In addition, Arce's figures show that his ethnic studies students are three times more likely to pass the state's AIMS reading test, 4 times more likely to pass the writing section, and 2.5 times more likely to pass the AIMS math test.
    Kids are more inclined to study and learn when the subject matter applies to them in a personal way. However, history classes need to give a full picture of important figures and events, the good and the bad.

    Some general comments on the book were on Barnes and Noble.

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Except that it is an economic system. Now who's just proven that he knows nothing of communism?
    No. That is socialism. Socialism is an economic system. Communism is a social structure. Learn the difference.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism[/ame]

    Socialism is a political philosophy that encompasses various theories of economic organization based on either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.[1][2][3] A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that directly maximizes use-values as opposed to exchange-values and has transcended commodity production and wage labour, along with a corresponding set of social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions, the method of resource allocation and post-monetary calculation based on some physical magnitude;[4] often implying a method of compensation based on individual merit, the amount of labour expended or individual contribution.[5]
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism[/ame]

    Communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates and aims to create such a society.[1]

    Karl Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in society, which would be achieved through a proletarian revolution and only possible after a transitional stage develops the productive forces, leading to a superabundance of goods and services.[2][3]

    "Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life. In modern usage, communism is often used to refer to the policies of the various communist states, which were authoritarian governments that had centrally planned economies and ownership of all the means of production. Most communist governments based their ideology on Marxism-Leninism.
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-...-communism.htm

    One point that is frequently raised to distinguish socialism from communism is that socialism generally refers to an economic system, while communism generally refers to both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively, and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness. Both socialism and communism are similar in that they seek to prevent the ill effects that are sometimes produced by capitalism.
    http://www.allaboutworldview.org/mar...munism-faq.htm

    Marxist Economics – Difference between Socialism and Communism

    Socialism and communism are not identical. Marxists believe that socialism is the first phase or first step in the transition to communism, the perfect economic system. The Political Dictionary explains the difference between the two systems: “Socialism is the first phase of communism. The principle of socialism is: from each according to his abilities, to each according to his work . . . Under communism the basic principle of society will be: from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”1

    Marxist Economics – Socialism is a Phase Towards Communism
    Socialism is the phase in history when the proletariat seizes both the means of production and the state. The arrival of communism will occur when the government has withered away because classes have ceased to exist and no one owns the means of production (it is owned in common). Lenin describes communism as “means working in common.”2 In this perfect economic system, the ideal is that everyone will freely work together to produce the necessary goods and services.
    http://www.marxmail.org/faq/socialism_and_communism.htm

    The Communists believe that as soon as the working class and its allies are in a position to do so they must make a basic change in the character of the state; they must replace capitalist dictatorship over the working class with workers’ dictatorship over the capitalist class as the first step in the process by which the existence of capitalists as a class (but not as individuals) is ended and a classless society is eventually ushered in. Socialism cannot be built merely by taking over and using the old capitalist machinery of government; the workers must destroy the old and set up their own new state apparatus. The workers’ state must give the old ruling class no opportunity to organize a counter-revolution; it must use its armed strength to crush capitalist resistance when it arises.

    The Socialists, on the other hand, believe that it is possible to make the transition from capitalism to socialism without a basic change in the character of the state. They hold this view because they do not think of the capitalist state as essentially an institution for the dictatorship of the capitalist class, but rather as a perfectly good piece of machinery which can be used in the interest of whichever class gets command of it. No need, then, for the working class in power to smash the old capitalist state apparatus and set up its own—the march to socialism can be made step by step within the framework of the democratic forms of the capitalist state.
    Think of communism as a way of life and socialism as a means within that way of life. Socialism is the economic system.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-14-10 at 05:11 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Areopagitican View Post
    And you know how you develop critical thinking skills on college? I'm not going to answer that, but I'll give you a hint: it doesn't come from a book containing a selection of race-based opinions masqurading as history.

    I agree that critical thinking needs to be developed, but if you are against parroting facts; how are you for parroting opinions?
    Do we ban the autobiography of Malcolm X, then?

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. That is socialism. Socialism is an economic system. Communism is a social structure. Learn the difference.

    Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    What Is the Difference Between Socialism and Communism?



    Marxist Economics and the Difference between Socialism and Communism



    Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production



    Think of communism as a way of life and socialism as a means within that way of life. Socialism is the economic system.
    No, communism is an economic system with socialist foundations. It's like taking socialism to an extreme.

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Leave it to conservatives to oppose learning about history when they don't like the contents. I learned about America's horrific shenanigans in the past but it didn't make me want to overthrow the country. It's college. They chose to learn about those subjects.

    You people are starting to scare me. Going to start burning "subversive" books next?
    Its high school, publicly funded high school.

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, communism is an economic system with socialist foundations. It's like taking socialism to an extreme.
    Lol. No. It's not. Socialism is the economic system WITHIN Communism.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Does TUSD's ethnic studies program violate Arizona's new law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Leave it to conservatives to oppose learning about history when they don't like the contents. I learned about America's horrific shenanigans in the past but it didn't make me want to overthrow the country. It's college. They chose to learn about those subjects.

    You people are starting to scare me. Going to start burning "subversive" books next?
    Yea, it's definitely the conservatives who are most outraged about "biased" textbooks:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...textbooks.html

    Interestingly enough, you seemed to object to the "biased" textbooks used in Texas, but have no problem with the "biased" textbooks used in AZ. Why is that?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058617136
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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