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Thread: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    The bill applies to all public and charter schools from kindergarten through high school. It would ban classes that:

    1. Promote the overthrow of the U.S. government.

    2. Promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

    3. Are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group.

    4. Advocate ethnic solidarity instead of treating pupils as individuals.
    This is all subjective crap. Who decides what any of that means?

    Who decides what "promoting the overthrow of the U.S. government" means? It could just as easily be a witch hunt. If piece of curricula or one assignment gets handed out that has one critique about the U.S. government from a historical perspective, does that mean they can accuse them of plotting insurrection?

    Promoting resentment... you can't talk about U.S. history without talking about race inequities that existed. It is bound to stir up some feelings. History class isn't an exercise in hand-holding. There are some shocking pieces of info. Why are the Republicans suddenly so concerned with this PC non-sense?

    3 and 4... I don't even know where to begin. There is no criteria in the legislation that even addresses the guidelines for what that would manifest as.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    Why should we separate high school students into different ethnic groups so that they can each learn about their own racial history in the US? Why can't they be taught a comprehensive ethnic history of the entire nations history together?
    There are many reasons why you would separate it. U.S. history alone is a huge, huge topic. When I was in university here in Canada, a professor from Mississippi came up to give us a lecture on the development of the blues in the south, and how it tied into slavery and treatment by the whites. His specialization as a PhD was music during the slave era. Music. That's how specific it was. And he has done 10 years of study on it, and written books.

    You could very easily divide history into focuses on the development of Afro-American culture, adaptation of aboriginals pre and post colonization and in the modern world.

    No, not just people of those races would take those classes. And if the composition of the class happens to be that way, so what? It's not like the school is coercing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    I am totally for taking specific ethnic studies in College and University. I think those classes are great and informative and don't present the same problems that ethnic classes in high school or earlier do.
    Are we just talking about high school here, or post-secondary? Because based on the legislation, these rules can apply to all levels of schooling that receive government funding, irregardless of the fact that some curricula have been skillfully designed to present worthwhile information.

    It's a carte blanche upon the whole academic system and I think it's a disgusting abuse of power.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    You think just because you say so, that the ACLU won't win cases showing the opposite? What about if they take some demographics of those that have been apprehended because they couldn't immediately prove legal status. Do you think that there will be a lot of Anglo-Saxons represented?
    You know, it's really easy and you don't even have to be detained. Just know your social security number or have your license (if you're a citizen). If you're an immigrant, then you're supposed to have your papers on you. If you don't have any of those, that's pretty suspicious. I don't see the basis of this really being race.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You know, it's really easy and you don't even have to be detained. Just know your social security number or have your license (if you're a citizen). If you're an immigrant, then you're supposed to have your papers on you. If you don't have any of those, that's pretty suspicious. I don't see the basis of this really being race.
    I understand that the vast majority, if not all, of the police officers will do their absolute best to not use racial profiling. This does not change the fact that the ACLU will probably win a lot of the legal battles in this, despite whether or not they are right. My point is, all the new law does is create more opportunities for people to sue the state and local governments of Arizona.

    However, I think that we do have a real problem on our hands in regards to kids being segregated and taught to distrust or even hate those of another race. This is a law that I hope will spread to other states.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post

    No, they teach one history, but we are taught about the forced resettlement of the French by the English and the thousands of deaths involved; we are taught about the arrival of the colonists and how they used, abused, and then tossed the aboriginals of this land.
    Are they taught how the aboriginals of North America had no concept of property rights, were constantly at war with one another, that they enslaved each other, that they had not even invented the wheel or learned to domesticate animals, that they had not a single permanent settlement because they had not figured out irrigation techniques invented thousands of years before in Mesopotamia and as a result were constantly on the brink of starvation often having to resort to cannibalism, that they practiced human sacrifice, that they had no written language or history and basically had not even advanced past the point of cavemen and that before the colonists arrived their life was brutal, miserable, cruel, short, and violent? No you're taught from the neo-Marxist multiculturalist perspective of the utopia of the new world before the arrival of the evil white imperialists.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-15-10 at 01:43 PM.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    This is all subjective crap. Who decides what any of that means?

    Who decides what "promoting the overthrow of the U.S. government" means? It could just as easily be a witch hunt. If piece of curricula or one assignment gets handed out that has one critique about the U.S. government from a historical perspective, does that mean they can accuse them of plotting insurrection?
    "promoting the overthrow of the U.S. government" means that the teacher makes the case that that the U.S. government needs to be replaced in a non-democratic fashion. It does not ban criticizing current or past politicians, administrations, congresses, or other governing bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Promoting resentment... you can't talk about U.S. history without talking about race inequities that existed. It is bound to stir up some feelings. History class isn't an exercise in hand-holding. There are some shocking pieces of info. Why are the Republicans suddenly so concerned with this PC non-sense?
    The law does not say that race inequities cannot be discussed. But if a teacher starts saying that one particular race (whites for example) or class (like the upper class) are responsible for their current predicaments, that is unacceptable and should be thrown out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    3 and 4... I don't even know where to begin. There is no criteria in the legislation that even addresses the guidelines for what that would manifest as.
    Why was segregating blacks and whites in high schools so bad 50-60 years ago, but is somehow acceptable today? Why should Mexican-Americans be taught a different US History than African-Americans or White-Americans? Why should Mexicans or Caucasians be deprived of learning about the struggles of the slaves and their victories in advances toward equality? If you look at high schools in America where these classes are held, you will find that this is exactly what is happening, hence the law in Arizona.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    There are many reasons why you would separate it. U.S. history alone is a huge, huge topic. When I was in university here in Canada, a professor from Mississippi came up to give us a lecture on the development of the blues in the south, and how it tied into slavery and treatment by the whites. His specialization as a PhD was music during the slave era. Music. That's how specific it was. And he has done 10 years of study on it, and written books.

    You could very easily divide history into focuses on the development of Afro-American culture, adaptation of aboriginals pre and post colonization and in the modern world.
    You are absolutely correct. That is why it is important to have these kind of classes in College and University. Show me where this law includes College and Universities in its language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    No, not just people of those races would take those classes. And if the composition of the class happens to be that way, so what? It's not like the school is coercing it.
    We have a problem in the US with high school age gangs. Asian, Hispanic, African-American, and white gangs emerge from certain classes focusing on different ethnic groups. Whether or not these classes are intentionally segregating the high schools is irrelevant. It is happening, they are a prevalent cause of it, and it is not good for these high school students. It is not good for the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Are we just talking about high school here, or post-secondary? Because based on the legislation, these rules can apply to all levels of schooling that receive government funding, irregardless of the fact that some curricula have been skillfully designed to present worthwhile information.
    Again, based on what legislation. Where in the language of the bill does it imply or even allow for this law to affect post-secondary education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's a carte blanche upon the whole academic system and I think it's a disgusting abuse of power.
    I think that we agree that government should stay out of our lives as much as possible. However, the state has so much money and interest invested in public schools and the education of our next generation. This legislation is completely protected by and within the bounds of the constitution and the authority of the Arizona State government.

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