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Thread: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    The Southwest = the new South.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    As opposed to the law signed previously forcing policemen to ask illegals for documentation whether they wanted to or not, I am in complete agreement with this new law.

    Jim Crow laws made segregation illegal, yet High schools are doing just that with these ethnic studies classes. I think that students should not go to certain classes based on the color of their skin.

    I also think that it is very important for all students to learn about the influences of all different ethnicities in US History. And they should learn it together, in as possible a diverse ethnic class as possible. For the majority of US history, the African-American struggle has been a prevalent disagreement, leading to the largest and most costly war that this nation has seen. Hispanics and Asians have also contributed largely to defining this nation and its history. Obviously, Anglo-Saxons are not exempt in defining US History, as they were the most prevalent ethnic group in creating this nation and its most cherished founding principles.

    These are things that should be studied and discussed objectively by students of all ethnicities, with the hope of e pluribus unum - creating unity rather than division. That is what this law hopes to accomplish, and I am in full support.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies - Yahoo! News

    Another bill targeting Hispanics and other minorities in Arizona with vague language. Who gets to decide whether a class 'promotes resentment'? If they learn about American support for the dictatorial PRI who killed hundreds of young students days before the Mexico City Olympics, does that promote 'resentment'? Thoughts?
    It's a step backwards to be sure. Conservatives will support this kind of interference, even though they would decry a Democrat regulating a school in this manner.

    Your country will never learn. It will just keep stepping backward until it reaches oblivion.

    Let the witch hunt continue.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    As opposed to the law signed previously forcing policemen to ask illegals for documentation whether they wanted to or not, I am in complete agreement with this new law.
    Yeah, if they have reasonable suspicion. It's like telling a cop that he has to run into a house if he hears gun shots there. Giving them a choice is somehow a good thing? I wish my boss would allow me to do that. I don't feel like doing this report, so I'm just not going to do it. I'll stick with simple data entry. I don't think that would go over too well.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's a step backwards to be sure. Conservatives will support this kind of interference, even though they would decry a Democrat regulating a school in this manner.

    Your country will never learn. It will just keep stepping backward until it reaches oblivion.

    Let the witch hunt continue.
    Not establishing a national language has really worked out well for Canada hasn't it? I suppose you wouldn't be opposed to some Canadian students being taught that they should overthrow the government? Do they have different history classes for French-Canadian history and English-Canadian history in high schools there?

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yeah, if they have reasonable suspicion. It's like telling a cop that he has to run into a house if he hears gun shots there. Giving them a choice is somehow a good thing? I wish my boss would allow me to do that. I don't feel like doing this report, so I'm just not going to do it. I'll stick with simple data entry. I don't think that would go over too well.
    Though I would prefer to debate this on a thread dedicated to it, like the one I started, I feel compelled to retort. I do like your example, though. It is backwards, however. In this case, the policemen are required to waste precious time with less important issues, while having less time (especially with budget cuts) to focus on the major issues - protecting the citizens of Arizona.
    Whether this means the criminal is a citizen or not is trivial in my mind. The important thing is that the criminal is caught. Once they are imprisoned, legal status should be sought after.

    The problem with this new law is that it will provide many opportunities for new lawsuits: lawsuits suing a police officer for not asking for legal status when they should have by an onlooker, and lawsuits from citizens that were unjustly targeted and didn't happen to have proof of legal status at the time. If you know the ACLU, you know they will be all over Arizona once this law starts, sucking them dry of everything they have.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    There is no racial profiling. The law is explicit in that. And a person can only be questioned when they are caught committing another crime.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There is no racial profiling. The law is explicit in that. And a person can only be questioned when they are caught committing another crime.
    You think just because you say so, that the ACLU won't win cases showing the opposite? What about if they take some demographics of those that have been apprehended because they couldn't immediately prove legal status. Do you think that there will be a lot of Anglo-Saxons represented?

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    Not establishing a national language has really worked out well for Canada hasn't it?
    Canada has two official languages. You might want to look them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    I suppose you wouldn't be opposed to some Canadian students being taught that they should overthrow the government?
    What a loaded question.

    My country doesn't teach such things in school; nor does yours, for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    Do they have different history classes for French-Canadian history and English-Canadian history in high schools there?
    No, they teach one history, but we are taught about the forced resettlement of the French by the English and the thousands of deaths involved; we are taught about the arrival of the colonists and how they used, abused, and then tossed the aboriginals of this land. We were taught that the "New World" was actually a very, very old world. We were also taught about all the other wonderful things that Canada has accomplished since its inception.

    But none of that changes the fact that we are now Canada and trying to do our best. Teaching the honest facts of history is nothing to be ashamed of, and I don't see how covering it up helps anybody. If your country did something, it has been written down; if it has been written down, it can and should be learned.

    The Republican party of Arizona is wrong in this case. First of all, if it happened in history, then you shouldn't be censoring it; secondly, if the truth of what happened is being taught, that is not teaching insurrection, that is teaching the facts; third, the Republican party has no business telling university students what they can and cannot learn in a curriculum that students paid tuition and elected to enroll in.

    How dare they censor history and tell such big lies about what goes on in the classroom. How dare they mix momentary illegal immigration politics with academia, as if they know better.

    But what can you expect from fake conservatives? They cry out anytime the Democrats sneeze. They carte blanche bipartisan efforts with mudslinging and filibusters; but the second that someone in their party has a draconian idea that will involve expansion of government, conservatives are right on board.

    And for the record, if the Democrats did this I would be equally against it.

    I agree with Arch Enemy (a conservative). The college system is one of the last bastions of protected knowledge. It has peer reviewed journals that try their best to maintain the facts and an accurate knowledge of the various topics of study. How dare the government, a bunch of pseudo-historians who think their revisionism has any ounce of credibility, shove their noses into the books.

    If I want to take a course on native studies and the history of the Indians pre and post colonization, or if I want to learn American history from the perspective of its dealings in Latin America, that is my own god damn business and none of yours. It's called specialization. Just because someone is getting a history degree doesn't mean they are learning all the history of all time. Some people have keener interests. How dare you or anyone tell them what they can or can't learn, or how it can or cannot be taught at the post-secondary level. That is the school admin's job. If you don't like their curriculum, then don't go to their school.

    This law is the most irrational piece of sh** I have heard in the news since the health bill.

    Liberals and conservatives, suck it up. You deserve each other. I have no sympathy for either of you anymore.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    No, they teach one history, but we are taught about the forced resettlement of the French by the English and the thousands of deaths involved; we are taught about the arrival of the colonists and how they used, abused, and then tossed the aboriginals of this land. We were taught that the "New World" was actually a very, very old world. We were also taught about all the other wonderful things that Canada has accomplished since its inception.
    I believe that you and I agree more than you know. Let me tell you what the law says and you tell me what part you do not agree with.

    The bill applies to all public and charter schools from kindergarten through high school. It would ban classes that:

    1. Promote the overthrow of the U.S. government.

    2. Promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

    3. Are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group.

    4. Advocate ethnic solidarity instead of treating pupils as individuals.

    I totally agree with you that we absolutely need to teach one history. We need to talk about the fact that slavery was the most controversial issue for more than half of the existence of this nation and that our most costly war was fought over it. We need to talk about the role of Mexico and its people in the forming of the US and the essential cultural influences that it has had on this great nation. The same goes with Asians - be they from China, Japan, Korea, or India, they have also played a large and noticeable role in the history of this nation that should be taught about in US history.

    Why should we separate high school students into different ethnic groups so that they can each learn about their own racial history in the US? Why can't they be taught a comprehensive ethnic history of the entire nations history together?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    But none of that changes the fact that we are now Canada and trying to do our best. Teaching the honest facts of history is nothing to be ashamed of, and I don't see how covering it up helps anybody. If your country did something, it has been written down; if it has been written down, it can and should be learned.

    The Republican party of Arizona is wrong in this case. First of all, if it happened in history, then you shouldn't be censoring it; secondly, if the truth of what happened is being taught, that is not teaching insurrection, that is teaching the facts; third, the Republican party has no business telling university students what they can and cannot learn in a curriculum that students paid tuition and elected to enroll in.

    How dare they censor history and tell such big lies about what goes on in the classroom. How dare they mix momentary illegal immigration politics with academia, as if they know better.

    But what can you expect from fake conservatives? They cry out anytime the Democrats sneeze. They carte blanche bipartisan efforts with mudslinging and filibusters; but the second that someone in their party has a draconian idea that will involve expansion of government, conservatives are right on board.

    And for the record, if the Democrats did this I would be equally against it.

    I agree with Arch Enemy (a conservative). The college system is one of the last bastions of protected knowledge. It has peer reviewed journals that try their best to maintain the facts and an accurate knowledge of the various topics of study. How dare the government, a bunch of pseudo-historians who think their revisionism has any ounce of credibility, shove their noses into the books.

    If I want to take a course on native studies and the history of the Indians pre and post colonization, or if I want to learn American history from the perspective of its dealings in Latin America, that is my own god damn business and none of yours. It's called specialization. Just because someone is getting a history degree doesn't mean they are learning all the history of all time. Some people have keener interests. How dare you or anyone tell them what they can or can't learn, or how it can or cannot be taught at the post-secondary level. That is the school admin's job. If you don't like their curriculum, then don't go to their school.
    I am totally for taking specific ethnic studies in College and University. I think those classes are great and informative and don't present the same problems that ethnic classes in high school or earlier do.

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