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Thread: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Ahh, great point, this actually makes me want to ask a question.

    To all those in this thread going "This is wrong, they should be able to have a Hispanic-American focused class" and other such sentiment, I have a question for you.

    Would you have any issue with a school in Georgia having a "Southern-American focused" History class that taught about the War of Northern Aggression, had weeks where they highlighted the lives of people like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall jackson, had a week decrying the war criminal General Sherman, examining Southern Culture during the time, explaining how the war was about States Rights and Lincoln's unconstitutional war, highlighting how the war damaged the southern states for the immediete time after the war and the lingering after effects, and highlighting famous southern figures from the time of the civil war onward.

    Would that be fine since I mean, every region should be able to cater specifically to the culture and history of the people that inhabit it and its okay if schools teach information that paints the United States as traditionally known in a bad light.

    So you all would have no issue with the above class I take it?
    Republican revisionism is always funny.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Republican revisionism is always funny.
    How does that even begin to address the point made? Oh and by the way...Lincoln was the Republican in the Civil War conflict. But don't let facts get in the way of you not answering the question.
    Last edited by jallman; 05-13-10 at 03:18 PM.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Thanks Arch, though I'll be honest, I'm very interested to see what (if anything) Disney or Hautey would say

    [edit]Damn, I'm Psychic[/edit]

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Republican revisionism is always funny.
    Umm, that's kind of the point of the example.

    Care to actually answer the question and show some intellectual honsety and consistancy based on your earlier stances or just want to try and grab onto a strawman.

    Yes, my above suggested class is a very biased interpritation of events...purely and completely through the eyes of a staunch southern. You know, much like the classes being done in Arizona. That's the entire point of my question.

    Going to answer, or just going to juke and jive?

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How does that even begin to address the point made?
    In that he's equating the Southern revisionism we're all so familiar with and you seem to hold on dearly to with teaching kids that Arizona was actually part of Mexico.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Umm, that's kind of the point of the example.
    Bull****. Your point is to equate revisionist history with ethnic classes. It's a faile(that's not a typo).

    Care to actually answer the question and show some intellectual honsety and consistancy based on your earlier stances or just want to try and grab onto a strawman.
    Why don't you try to spell out honesty and consistency with before accusing others of not them? Your 'argument' is a non-sequitur. Unless you can show that these classes are teaching kid revisionist history then there is nothing 'consistent' about your argument.

    Yes, my above suggested class is a very biased interpritation of events...purely and completely through the eyes of a staunch southern. You know, much like the classes being done in Arizona. That's the entire point of my question.

    Going to answer, or just going to juke and jive?
    Prove this or GTFO. Thanks.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-13-10 at 03:23 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Umm, that's kind of the point of the example.

    Care to actually answer the question and show some intellectual honsety and consistancy based on your earlier stances or just want to try and grab onto a strawman.

    Yes, my above suggested class is a very biased interpritation of events...purely and completely through the eyes of a staunch southern. You know, much like the classes being done in Arizona. That's the entire point of my question.

    Going to answer, or just going to juke and jive?
    I wouldn't support teaching a separate class on the Civil War. But, I agree...it should be taught in a much more nuanced and historically accurate way versus "The South Was Evil so The North Kicked Its Ass" which seems to be the norm.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    In that he's equating the Southern revisionism we're all so familiar with and you seem to hold on dearly to with teaching kids that Arizona was actually part of Mexico.
    There's nothing revisionist about acknowledging that the Northern states were aggressive about passing legislation and tariffs intended to force movement of raw resources from the south to the North at minimal cost to Northern industry.

    Perhaps you would do well to take a history lesson, yourself.

    I don't think anyone is attempting to stop teaching kids in Arizona that Arizona was once part of Mexico. If you can demonstrate where, then you might have a point. Otherwise, you're just, as Zyphlin put it, juking and jiving.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How does that even begin to address the point made? Oh and by the way...Lincoln was the Republican in the Civil War conflict. But don't let facts get in the way of you not answering the question.
    I'll explain why I say 'Republican Revisionism'. In the last 40 years, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party have switched voting blocks. While this is for various reasons, the Republican Party has now taken up the role of defending the Republican created myth of 'States Rights'. Disenfranchised poor whites in formerly heavy Democrat areas of the South are now States Rights supporting Republicans of the South.

    RNC Chief to Say It Was 'Wrong' to Exploit Racial Conflict for Votes - washingtonpost.com

    It was called "the southern strategy," started under Richard M. Nixon in 1968, and described Republican efforts to use race as a wedge issue -- on matters such as desegregation and busing -- to appeal to white southern voters.

    Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, this morning will tell the NAACP national convention in Milwaukee that it was "wrong."

    "By the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out," Mehlman says in his prepared text. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

    Mehlman, a Baltimore native who managed President Bush's reelection campaign, goes on to discuss current overtures to minorities, calling it "not healthy for the country for our political parties to be so racially polarized." The party lists century-old outreach efforts in a new feature on its Web site, GOP.com, which was relaunched yesterday with new interactive features and a history section called "Lincoln's Legacy."
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy]Southern strategy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    From 1948 to 1984 the Southern states, traditionally a stronghold for the Democrats, became key swing states, providing the popular vote margins in the 1960, 1968 and 1976 elections. During this era, several Republican candidates expressed support for states' rights, which some critics claim was "codewords" of opposition to federal enforcement of civil rights for blacks and intervention on their behalf, including passage of legislation to protect the franchise.[4]. This is in spite of any concrete appeals in opposition of civil rights in the course of supporting states' rights.

    Analysts such as Richard Johnston and Byron Shafer have argued that this phenomenon had more to do with the economics than it had to do with race. In The End of Southern Exceptionalism, political scientists Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Shafer of the University of Wisconsin wrote that the Republicans' gains in the South corresponded to the growth of the upper middle class in that region. They suggested that such individuals believed their economic interests were better served by the Republicans than the Democrats. According to Johnston and Shafer, working-class white voters in the South continued to vote for Democrats for national office until the 1990s. In summary, Shafer told The New York Times, "[whites] voted by their economic preferences, not racial preferences".[5]
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Bull****. Your point is to equate revisionist history with ethnic classes. It's a faile(that's not a typo).
    No, its teaching a class about a specific culture from the mindset of that culture rather than teaching a standard american history class, just like their teaching a class in the mindset of a specific culture rather than teachin a standard american history class.

    Why don't you try to spell out honesty and consistency with before using themt? Your 'argument' is a non-sequitur. Unless you can show that these classes are teaching kid revisionist history then there is nothing 'consistent' about your argument.
    Want to know the first sign your arguments weak? When you start playing spelling nazi. Yeah, sorry, don't give a **** enough about arguing with you to sit here and run everything through spell check or read read things a dozen times to see if I didn't accidently hit the s key before I hit the e.

    There's nothing "revisionist" about what I typed, its simply a different view point. One contrary to what's typically thought of and viewed by American History classes.

    Prove this or GTFO. Thanks.
    I'll give you a free be here. You may not want to tell posters to get the **** out, its uncivil and its flaming, figure I'd be kind and say it here since you're doing it to a mod so that another doesn't come from behind and act on it.

    But fine, since you want to nit pick and continue to dance around the question...fine, take my exact same question and remove your questionable "revisionist" part. Have it simply a southern heritage class that focuses on the other reasons, ALONG with Slavery, that the south went to war (or are you seriously claiming slavery was the first, second, and ONLY reason). Have it still study Jackson and Lee. Have it look at the Southern Culture of that time. Have it look at what Southerns have contributed to the country since then.

    Nothing revisionist there, nothing that can even be claimed to be revionist. So again, how about rather than getting on your little soap box because you can't dare to actually admit you're being amazingly biased and hypocritical, grabbing onto one little line and using it as if nothing else within it existed, and now answer the question truthfully and honestly.

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