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Thread: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    All of which I can agree with you on. But don't create seperate classes; rather, teach it within the context of the whole.

    This is how racism breeds, getting a teacher to teach the history (and agenda) of a particular GROUP as seperate from other Americans.

    My kids are half white, half Hispanic, so I can relate to you. They have the advantages of an affluent life, but we don't talk about our family as "mixed", we just talk about it as a family. Mom's ethnicity is Hispanic, and she's fluent in Spanish. So what, that's really cool.

    I don't want my kids associating or empathizing with any "movement" or "cause" built around their ethnicity. I want them to concentrate on who they are as our kids, their teacher's students, their coach's athletes, their friends' friends, and their community's citizens, and nothing more.
    I like what you say here, but my nephew is half Korean and was called (and I quote) a "stupid Asian Chinc" by one of his teachers in high school. But because only two other students overheard the comment, the school refused to believe him and chose to believe the teacher instead.

    Where I grew up, there was one black student, one Indian student, one Native American student, and one Japanese student + three foreign exchange students.

    Indeed, one of those foreign exchange students was from Finland and lived with my family and the one class we had together was taught by the teacher who called by nephew a racial epithet. He also told Petri that he was a Communist. And when Petri said Finland wasn't a Communist nation, the teacher said, "well, you don't understand the facts of your own nation."

    Of course, this could turn into how bad public education is (and my school was rated one of the finest in the state of Indiana at the time) and I'm not wanting to turn it into that; but history should be taught from all perspectives - not just the White American perspective.

    The teaching of ethnic studies courses is a response to traditional academia telling everything from a single perspective.

    Until THAT is changed, I see no problem with ethnic studies courses. I, myself, minored in African-American studies and loved every minute of it and learned a lot that I didn't learn from more mainstream courses. It didn't develop a "separatist" perspective at all. It developed understanding between people.

    Unless the law address the way history is taught in general, to ban ethnic studies courses is nothing but yet another political ploy by a bunch of politicians who are worried about a bunch of pissed off white folks who are really (and legitimately) angry and don't know what to do with their anger.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    I came here and assimilated. I am as American as hip-hop music.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It sounds almost as foolish and ill-defined as laws that seek to impose additional criminal penalties on people who do bad things as a result of "hate."
    I oppose those too.
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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    There is no "American" history.
    Bull****. American history starts in 1492. It really gets interesting around 1760 or so.

    There is history that benefits American nationalism; cheering WWII and WWI as just wars and how it was American power that won the war, although it seems much more likely that the USSR is more responsible for winning WWII than the US;
    Good. That's something to talk about in AMERICAN history even if your view is misguided.

    submitting that the Civil War was a necessary war to rid the United States of slavery;
    It was a necessary war to keep Lincoln's tariff's in place and protect thriving Northern industry.

    paint the American Revolutionaries as martyrs and heroes and downplaying the mob like mentality that was the catalyst for the nation-wide revolution; have the systematic native american extermination resemble a necessary evil, or numb it altogether.
    Well if you don't even see those who spilled their blood for your freedom as heroes, I don't know what to tell you. As for the Native American problem, I think that should be covered under evolutionary biology rather than history.

    We have to face it that history is specific to region, in regards to how a subject should be discussed. The northern teachers I had throughout my middle and high school courses would never call the civil war the "War of Northern Aggression" but outside of their classes it was how our region talked about that period in history.
    That in no way alleviates the issue of classes teaching Americans to be divided over our history. No student sitting in a classroom today suffered slavery or the civil war. The subjects need to be taught from an academic, factual perspective without all the editorializing input of race activists.


    How do you teach the subject of Native American extermination to a Cherokee descendent with a disregard to "promoting racial resentment"?
    You say:

    This is what happened. This is the result. This is where things stand today. Any questions?

    How do you teach the civil rights movement in Birmingham Alabama and how lynchings in the south were a common spectacle and not promote racial resentment?
    You say:

    This is what happened. This is the result. This is where things stand today. Any questions?

    How do you teach a Japanese-American WWII? Do you brush over the parts about the illegal arresting of Japanese-American because the public shat a brick whenever they saw any person of Asian decent?
    This is what happened. This was the result. This is where things stand today. Any questions?

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Bull****. American history starts in 1492. It really gets interesting around 1760 or so.
    You still don't believe 1492 was the year America was discovered do you?
    I thought that was tied with all the other mythologies that people typically sift through during their adolescence like "Columbus sought to prove the Earth was round" and "Magellan was the first to circumnavigate the globe".

    Progeny calls the colonists Americans. Yet people have lived in America for some 40,000 years.
    Good. That's something to talk about in AMERICAN history even if your view is misguided.
    Care to back that claim up?


    It was a necessary war to keep Lincoln's tariff's in place and protect thriving Northern industry.
    You see it as such. I see it as a war to keep the South in the Union and as an underdeveloped exporter of raw materials to the benefit of the North.

    Same information, effectively.

    Well if you don't even see those who spilled their blood for your freedom as heroes, I don't know what to tell you. As for the Native American problem, I think that should be covered under evolutionary biology rather than history.
    Billions and billions of people have shed their blood to keep my genetic identity intact. It is not rare. Had I been alive in the 40's would I have fought in the War to keep my progeny safe? You betcha, but I would do it only under the flag that draws around my family. Had my family been in the Soviet Union I would have fought as a Russian soldier, in Japan as a Japanese solider. I'm glad to be American, but only because America is to the benefit of my family.

    That in no way alleviates the issue of classes teaching Americans to be divided over our history. No student sitting in a classroom today suffered slavery or the civil war. The subjects need to be taught from an academic, factual perspective without all the editorializing input of race activists.
    I agree which is why you deal with the professors.
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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    We have to face it that history is specific to region, in regards to how a subject should be discussed. The northern teachers I had throughout my middle and high school courses would never call the civil war the "War of Northern Aggression" but outside of their classes it was how our region talked about that period in history.
    Ahh, great point, this actually makes me want to ask a question.

    To all those in this thread going "This is wrong, they should be able to have a Hispanic-American focused class" and other such sentiment, I have a question for you.

    Would you have any issue with a school in Georgia having a "Southern-American focused" History class that taught about the War of Northern Aggression, had weeks where they highlighted the lives of people like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall jackson, had a week decrying the war criminal General Sherman, examining Southern Culture during the time, explaining how the war was about States Rights and Lincoln's unconstitutional war, highlighting how the war damaged the southern states for the immediete time after the war and the lingering after effects, and highlighting famous southern figures from the time of the civil war onward.

    Would that be fine since I mean, every region should be able to cater specifically to the culture and history of the people that inhabit it and its okay if schools teach information that paints the United States as traditionally known in a bad light.

    So you all would have no issue with the above class I take it?

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    You still don't believe 1492 was the year America was discovered do you?
    I don't - given how what is modern day North America was already mapped in some form before Columbus even reached "America."
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To all those in this thread going "This is wrong, they should be able to have a Hispanic-American focused class" and other such sentiment, I have a question for you.

    Would you have any issue with a school in Georgia having a "Southern-American focused" History class that taught about the War of Northern Aggression, had weeks where they highlighted the lives of people like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall jackson, had a week decrying the war criminal General Sherman, examining Southern Culture during the time, explaining how the war was about States Rights and Lincoln's unconstitutional war, highlighting how the war damaged the southern states for the immediete time after the war and the lingering after effects, and highlighting famous southern figures from the time of the civil war onward.
    Absolutely.
    Southerners should be proud in their heritage. No reason why not to discuss it.
    Would that be fine since I mean, every region should be able to cater specifically to the culture and history of the people that inhabit it and its okay if schools teach information that paints the United States as traditionally known in a bad light.
    There is no reason why you cannot have a Federally administrated historical course with an overview of United States history. But we need to realize that the United States is not homogenous demographic. I think it is necessary to teach Southern students what part their region played, the general sentiment of the South in regards to the issues in the Civil War. Do the exact same for the North.



    So you all would have no issue with the above class I take it?
    Hell no I'd fully support it.
    Last edited by Arch Enemy; 05-13-10 at 03:11 PM.
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    Re: Arizona gov. signs bill targeting ethnic studies

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    You still don't believe 1492 was the year America was discovered do you?
    Did I say that? However, US American history really isn't about a bunch of savages crossing the bering strait.

    I thought that was tied with all the other mythologies that people typically sift through during their adolescence like "Columbus sought to prove the Earth was round" and "Magellan was the first to circumnavigate the globe".
    Whatever.

    Progeny calls the colonists Americans. Yet people have lived in America for some 40,000 years.
    Yeah and the study of US American history isn't really vested in the study of a bunch of savages. US american history's first important event was the European motivation to seek passage to the West Indies.

    Care to back that claim up?
    What? That American history should be talked about in American history? ooookay.

    You see it as such. I see it as a war to keep the South in the Union and as an underdeveloped exporter of raw materials to the benefit of the North.


    Same information, effectively.
    Pretty much.

    Billions and billions of people have shed their blood to keep my genetic identity intact. It is not rare. Had I been alive in the 40's would I have fought in the War to keep my progeny safe? You betcha, but I would do it only under the flag that draws around my family. Had my family been in the Soviet Union I would have fought as a Russian soldier, in Japan as a Japanese solider. I'm glad to be American, but only because America is to the benefit of my family.
    American history isn't about genetic identity. It is about the struggles and victories of a people who came together from all over the world to make a nation.

    Your lack of pride in your heritage is a little disappointing.


    I agree which is why you deal with the professors.
    You don't think this law is a step in that direction?

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