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Thread: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The Federal government...a body that has put the US some 13.5 trillion dollars in debt due to deficit spending...is now going to investigate and be critical of 'the fed'. Thats ALMOST as laughable as the federal government questioning big banking's business practices.
    Good point. The last thing we need is the U.S. Congress telling anyone how to be fiscally responsible.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    How about I just link you to the last audit of the Board of Governors? (The 2009 audit is not ready yet.) You can also get the audits of each of the Federal Reserve Banks.

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardd...pdf/audits.pdf
    That's quite the read!

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this audit doesn't actually say who gets the money and why, does it? Does it examine transactions between the Fed and foreign central banks?

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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    That's quite the read!

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this audit doesn't actually say who gets the money and why, does it? Does it examine transactions between the Fed and foreign central banks?
    The auditors have to see all that to prepare the audit, but just like in GE's audit, every last detail of every transaction is not disclosed. The Federal Reserve Banks lend money to member banks every single day. So listing those transactions would be a bit much! Each Federal Reserve Bank has its own audit. The "Fed" is actually not one thing like people think it is. It is really 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks that operate under the supervision of the Board of Governors (the audit I linked to). Those Banks do the work of the Fed. Profits are sent back to the Treasury. To get a full picture you need all 12 audits as they operate separately.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Obama needs to do all that he can to kill this bill.

    The Fed's independence must NOT be compromised by stupid politicians who have absolutely no understanding of economics or finance. Ben Bernanke has done a great job, and even if he hadn't, does anyone truly think that Congress could do a better job? That's basically what you're advocating by supporting this bill.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And now, I would like to thank someone who has been proposing to audit the Fed for more than 20 years, and who never wavered from this proposal, which he repeatedly introduced into the House. Once called "crazy", this proposal is now passed by a unanimous vote in the Senate.

    Thank you, Ron Paul.

    Article is here.

    [/COLOR][/LEFT]
    I'm surprised it passed, but about damned time. The Fed belongs to Congress as only Congress was given the power to print and regulate the value of our currency. They need to make sure it's running the way it's supposed to for the reasons it's supposed to. I hope they take this seriously and work to uncover WTF the fed has been doing.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    The Fed's independence must NOT be compromised by stupid politicians who have absolutely no understanding of economics or finance. Ben Bernanke has done a great job, and even if he hadn't, does anyone truly think that Congress could do a better job? That's basically what you're advocating by supporting this bill.
    It's not for the concept that Congress can do a better job. I hope we all agree that they can't. The problem is that the Fed is independent from the chain of command and have no reporting authority.

    Stekim is right that the information has been publicly available for quite some time, although I doubt John Q. Public was aware of it, and couldn't understand line 1 of it even if they knew. If the GAO had at least some say in it, I'd understand it.

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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Obama needs to do all that he can to kill this bill.

    The Fed's independence must NOT be compromised by stupid politicians who have absolutely no understanding of economics or finance. Ben Bernanke has done a great job, and even if he hadn't, does anyone truly think that Congress could do a better job? That's basically what you're advocating by supporting this bill.
    Congress was the one given the power. The Fed must be regulated, and at this point I'd much rather have the Congress meddling than not. Bernanke did not do a good job, he folded to the powers that be. Wallstreet and the banks dictated what was done. Independence....HA. The thing which values our currency, which manages unemployment and inflation (Bernanke, BTW, said the fed mandate was to balance inflation and growth; I'll let you figure out what's wrong with that statement) should NOT be independent. Only Congress is allowed to print and regulate the value of our currency. Anything which prints or regulates the value of our dollar thus belongs directly and solely to Congress.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It's not for the concept that Congress can do a better job. I hope we all agree that they can't. The problem is that the Fed is independent from the chain of command and have no reporting authority.
    Well the idea of ANY independent agency is to insulate them from the politics of the day, which seems especially wise for something as important as monetary policy. However, they are held accountable through checks and balances just like any other agency. The Board of Governors of the Fed are appointed by the President with the consent of the Senate. They can also be impeached and removed from office before the end of their term, for cause. And Congress has the power to change the Fed's structure, should the need ever arise.

    (However, there's a difference between having that power and actually exercising it. Since there is no need for them to exercise it now, they shouldn't, lest the Fed become politicized.)
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-11-10 at 05:05 PM.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Congress was the one given the power. The Fed must be regulated, and at this point I'd much rather have the Congress meddling than not.
    Why? Congressmen are not typically trained in economics or finance. Most of them have absolutely no understanding of how the Fed works. Do you really want to hear congressional campaigns include promises like "If I'm elected, I'll keep the interest rates low"? Ughhh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Bernanke did not do a good job, he folded to the powers that be. Wallstreet and the banks dictated what was done. Independence....HA.
    I'm curious what you think Bernanke should have done. And I'm curious as to why you think his decisions (whether you agree with them or not) weren't independent. He isn't an elected official, so he doesn't have any campaign coffers to fill. Are you saying that the banks bribed him with kickbacks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    The thing which values our currency, which manages unemployment and inflation (Bernanke, BTW, said the fed mandate was to balance inflation and growth; I'll let you figure out what's wrong with that statement)
    That's a fairly accurate description of the Fed's job. I don't see anything wrong with it. Enlighten me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    should NOT be independent.
    If the Fed isn't independent, then our monetary policy will become based on whatever direction the political winds are currently blowing, rather than what is the best monetary policy. Generally that means that our interest rates will be kept lower than they should be, because congressmen want to boost the economy NOW while they're in office, even if it causes a crash many years down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Only Congress is allowed to print and regulate the value of our currency. Anything which prints or regulates the value of our dollar thus belongs directly and solely to Congress.
    Technically the Federal Reserve doesn't print money. The US Mint does that, which is under the Department of Treasury. The Fed controls the money supply, which is slightly different.

    As for regulating the value of our currency, Congress last exercised that power in 1971, when they allowed the value of our currency to float freely. That has been the congressional policy for the last 40 years. The Fed does not have the ability to change that.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-11-10 at 05:07 PM.
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    Re: Senate votes 96-0 to audit Fed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why? Congressmen are not typically trained in economics or finance. Most of them have absolutely no understanding of how the Fed works. Do you really want to hear congressional campaigns include promises like "If I'm elected, I'll keep the interest rates low"? Ughhh.
    I really want the Constitution followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm curious what you think Bernanke should have done. And I'm curious as to why you think his decisions (whether you agree with them or not) weren't independent. He isn't an elected official, so he doesn't have any campaign coffers to fill. Are you saying that the banks bribed him with kickbacks?
    Not exactly bribed, no. Just bending to the establishment. Bernanke went in there like a lion, talking about how he wasn't going to allow this and that. He was going to tighten the leash. He whimpers now, nothing more. Did nothing to solve any problem, did nothing to run the fed in a proper manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's a fairly accurate description of the Fed's job. I don't see anything wrong with it. Enlighten me.
    The federal reserves mandate is to balance inflation with unemployment. Growth is not synonymous with unemployment. Growth can come from market manipulation, gains on Wall Street or in the banking sector. You know, the people who run the Fed and who's irresponsible and uncontrolled behavior got us into the current mess. Growth doesn't mean unemployment. Gaining growth does not mean we had to lesson unemployment. Of course, lowered unemployment can lead to growth as well; but growth itself is not the Fed's mandate; it's unemployment. They did nothing on that front, they did everything on the "growth" side. Help out their buddies on Wall Street at the expense of the rest of us on Main Street.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If the Fed isn't independent, then our monetary policy will become based on whatever direction the political winds are currently blowing, rather than what is the best monetary policy. Generally that means that our interest rates will be kept lower than they should be, because congressmen want to boost the economy NOW while they're in office, even if it causes a crash many years down the road.
    Better than Goldman Sachs. I can vote for politicians, I have no say in Goldman Sachs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Technically the Federal Reserve doesn't print money. The US Mint does that, which is under the Department of Treasury. The Fed controls the money supply, which is slightly different.
    It buys from the Treasury, yes. The Fed regulates the value of the dollar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    As for regulating the value of our currency, Congress last exercised that power in 1971, when they allowed the value of our currency to float freely. That has been the congressional policy for the last 40 years. The Fed does not have the ability to change that.
    If the Fed's mandate is to balance unemployment and inflation, how do you think it could accomplish that without being able to affect either? Inflation, BTW, sets what our dollar is worth; that's valuing the dollar. The fed manipulates long term and short term interest rates. They set the inflation rate by doing so. As such, the Federal Reserve is an institute which sets the value of our dollar, a power given only to Congress. Thus the Federal Reserve is property of Congress.

    There's nothing wrong with the audit, it in and of itself will not even do anything to the "independence" (like I want an institute which sets the value of my money to be separate and isolated from government) of the Fed. There's nothing wrong with the owner saying, we want to look at the books. We want to know what you've been up to. All the resistance to it...makes you wonder what's on those books. If there is improper action on the side of the fed as it relates to our money...hang them all.
    Last edited by Ikari; 05-11-10 at 05:21 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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