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Thieves Steal Mojave Desert Memorial Cross in Nighttime Heist

Why punish them "severely"? Only a theft was committed. Just because you have some special attachment to a controversial object does not mean that the criminals who stole it are entitled to more time than any other theft would get.

Would you feel the same way if it was the Liberty Bell that was stolen?

How about the original of the Constitution?

The headstone off your Mother's Grave?

This is aggravated grand theft at the very least..... maybe with a "hate crime" enhancement.
 
Theft is theft, but they have broken more then one law. Not only was it theft but they also desecrated the graves of veterans and a memorial to them as well.

Hmmmm.... in California, that's 3 stikes and you are out.... life in prison.
 
People are calling for more punishment because this incident was a double whammy, in that it offended the military and Christians, and you don't do that in the United States.

No, what we don't do in the United States is punish people more severely because we disagree with their views.

Oh wait! Yes we do! Thanks to Hate Crime legislation, you can punish people over and above what the normal punishment is simply because you don't like what they have to say, 1st amendment be damned.

My bad.
 
People are calling for more punishment because this incident was a double whammy, in that it offended the military and Christians, and you don't do that in the United States.
I'm not offended as a christian, I am offended as an American, I am offended as one who has great respect for the military, and I am offended that little dirtbags like these want to act like juvenile delinquents because they didn't get their way in court. This kind of scum has no place amongst the law abiding of any ideological stance, much like the ELF, and other extremist groups that break the law to get their ends met. I would be offended if this were any religious symbol or even if it was a secular one because of the nature of this act.
 
No, what we don't do in the United States is punish people more severely because we disagree with their views.

Oh wait! Yes we do! Thanks to Hate Crime legislation, you can punish people over and above what the normal punishment is simply because you don't like what they have to say, 1st amendment be damned.

My bad.
I don't believe in hate crimes legislation either, simply for the fact that I cannot think of a single crime that involved love or indifference to begin with. Which is why I don't want this charged as a "hate crime" as I believe in the constitution to a fault. Still, I have no problem with maximum prosecution because of the nature of this.
 
No, what we don't do in the United States is punish people more severely because we disagree with their views.

Oh wait! Yes we do! Thanks to Hate Crime legislation, you can punish people over and above what the normal punishment is simply because you don't like what they have to say, 1st amendment be damned.

My bad.


I agree with you there.... hate crime enhancement sucks. It’s if nothing else, discriminatory.

Let's see.... they committed criminal trespass, theft of an antique, desecration of a grave, desecration of a war memorial.... and I'm sure a smart DA. could find a 1/2 dozen other charges if he/she wanted to.

Conviction of three felonies in California falls under the "three strikes law", and that means life in prison. I don't think a "hate crime "enhancement will be necessary.
 
Prostitution immediately springs to mind. ;)
Actually, that would be more about gratification, and while I have to much self-respect to ever imbibe I don't think prositution should even be a crime.
 
Okay, thinking back I have erred. No Tucker I'm not changing my mind on the prositution counter argument. Petty crimes such as littering and jaywalking would require indifference, while there is no motive to break the law one would have to disreguard others and their own safety respectively to engage in those acts, so......I cannot think of any violent crimes that have an element of love or indifference.:doh
 
Okay, thinking back I have erred. No Tucker I'm not changing my mind on the prositution counter argument. Petty crimes such as littering and jaywalking would require indifference, while there is no motive to break the law one would have to disreguard others and their own safety respectively to engage in those acts, so......I cannot think of any violent crimes that have an element of love or indifference.:doh

Theft isn't a violent crime. :2razz:


(P.S. I'm mostly just messing with you. I agree that the idea of a hate crime is BS.)
 
Theft isn't a violent crime. :2razz:


(P.S. I'm mostly just messing with you. I agree that the idea of a hate crime is BS.)
Theft can be. Especially if based in malice.
(I figured that you were going somewhere with it btw)
 
No, what we don't do in the United States is punish people more severely because we disagree with their views.

Oh wait! Yes we do! Thanks to Hate Crime legislation, you can punish people over and above what the normal punishment is simply because you don't like what they have to say, 1st amendment be damned.

My bad.
Blame your fellow liberals, us conservatives were against the hate crime legislation.
 
I understand that there are hard feelings on both sides of this issue, but when one side resorts to theft, if politics turns out to be the reason (and we don't know yet), then they have destroyed any argument for their own cause, because they broke the law to make their point. On the other hand, we don't know the reason yet. If the thieves are caught, then we should have our answer.

I think they could have stolen it for the value of the metal.

Thieves are hauling copper wire from the ground, stealing sewer caps, this could be theft for the material.

It's not like we're living in the greatest economic times.
This might be a disgusting example of it.

.
 
They should be shot, drawn and quartered and heads on a pike. I don't care if it is extra-judicial. We need to send the right message.
 
They should be shot, drawn and quartered and heads on a pike. I don't care if it is extra-judicial. We need to send the right message.
They just stole a monument out of political intolerance. They didn't commit treason, so cool it.
 
I agree with you there.... hate crime enhancement sucks. It’s if nothing else, discriminatory.

Let's see.... they committed criminal trespass, theft of an antique, desecration of a grave, desecration of a war memorial.... and I'm sure a smart DA. could find a 1/2 dozen other charges if he/she wanted to.

Conviction of three felonies in California falls under the "three strikes law", and that means life in prison. I don't think a "hate crime "enhancement will be necessary.

Three strikes doesn't mean three crimes from the same incident, but yeah, I'm sure a judge can find aggravating circumstances to give a harsher sentence than the average person charged with these crimes.
 
STOLEN: Disputed Mojave cross honoring US war dead

This world sucks eggs. How pathetic and sad and crazy.

LOS ANGELES (AP) - A cross erected on a remote Mojave Desert outcropping to honor American war dead has been stolen less than two weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court allowed it to remain standing while a legal battle continued over its presence on federal land.
Versions of the memorial have been vandalized repeatedly in the last 75 years and the motive this time was not immediately known, but the theft was condemned Tuesday by veterans groups that support the cross and by civil libertarians that saw it as a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state.

CONTINUED: Disputed Mojave cross honoring US war dead stolen - wtop.com
 
They should be shot, drawn and quartered and heads on a pike. I don't care if it is extra-judicial. We need to send the right message.

What message? That if you steal a cross you die?

I'm personally glad you are in no position of power to make anything like that possible.
 
Theft can be. Especially if based in malice.
(I figured that you were going somewhere with it btw)

It's not violent unless there is other people there whom are threatened. And then it's called robbery.
 
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