• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

I guess you've never been the person sitting there uncomfortably while other people assume you are one of the group and subject you to a religious service you didn't sign up for. I lived in Utah as a Southern Baptist, and experienced it all the time, which is what largely influenced my views on the subject.


I grew up Roman Catholic, so there may have been all sorts of things 'forced' on me....(ba boom!) No seriously, unwanted proselytizing can be an annoyance for sure, but not life altering unless you allow it to be.


A few thoughts:

First, public prayers for the sake of being public about them are expressly forbidden, BY CHRIST, in the New Testament.


This is your interoperation of the scriptures. Which I am positive the scriptures also say there can be none of.


Second, what is the goal of such conduct, if it is not rewarded by God? Generally speaking, it is done because the believers are so inconsiderate that they feel they must subject other people to their practices.


Again, you are looking at this as though you were offended personally. Again I ask you to come up with one resident who publicly claimed they were offended, or "forced" to endure such a hardship as a prayer before their meal? Can you? In fact I would venture a guess that the resident were fore square in favor of the prayer which is why the Mayor of the town made a personal appearance and pledge that he would get to work to overturn this.

That being the case, I would ask why it is that liberals feel it their duty to force their beliefs on people that had no complaint to begin with?


Third, what does such behavior do for the cause of Christ? Be specific. What is this sort of public prayer designed to accomplish, in your opinion? I'd really like to know.


Spiritual guidance can be a great comfort to those in the end stages of their lives. More than one study has shown over and over, that people entering the latter years of life often turn to their faith as a comfort, and solace. This was a group of seniors within their own facility offering a prayer before lunch for heavens sake. Not some sandwich board wearing homeless man in the park screaming 'repent'!!!

And even if it was, what makes you libs so scared of prayer that you feel you must take it away?


j-mac
 
No, they did NOT tell them they couldn't pray.

Ok, for a 3rd time, lets see what the state told them over the years:

“Over our years of service, we have been instructed, as recently as two weeks ago, by the state regulatory agency that verbal prayer was not allowed at any senior center..."

What does that sound like to you? An endorsement to pray?

So do you think they'd fight for my "right for group prayer" if I demanded group satanic prayer, or not? Wiccan? Muslim?

Well of course they wouldn't, b/c your sole purpose for doing so would be to create mischief, for the sole purpose of instigating or irritating others. In this case, a bunch of old people who aren't out to insult others, but simply say a prayer over their meal.

I find it more amazing you feel threatened by their prayer, when your not even in the same freaking state they are. Are you Muslim? Are you a devil worshipper? If not, then why would you bother with a prayer in Islam or in satanic verses? Pretty ridiculous if you think about it.
 
And even if it was, what makes you libs so scared of prayer that you feel you must take it away?
No one took away. They are free to pray to any fairy or leprechaun they want to any time they want to. Always have been, always will be. It's not physically possible to 'take away' prayer.

And LOL@calling me a 'lib' :lol:
 
Uhh... no, that's not what I said at all. I said people are forced to sit there and listen to their nonsense. No one can force anyone to pray, just like no one can STOP anyone from praying.

Really? Can you please show us, where they were "made" to sit through a 5 second prayer?

And why is this "nonsense"? It's not "nonsense" to them. They find it pretty important obviously. Why do you feel threatened about their prayer that you weren't even a part of?


LMFAO You really think no one would stop me? You're ****ing insane if you do. You're also ****ing insane if you think they'd taken it to the Mayor if I had been told to stop my pre-dinner summon Lucifer rituals as a group.

Of course they would. Your doing it simply to stick a thumb in their eyes. You would be considered an instigator for the sole purpose of irritating others, which by and large, would get you kicked out of just about any venue.
 
No seriously, unwanted proselytizing can be an annoyance for sure, but not life altering unless you allow it to be.

What if you had to listen to it daily in order to eat? Why does their right to protestlytize outweigh your right to eat your meal in peace?

This is your interoperation of the scriptures. Which I am positive the scriptures also say there can be none of.

No. It's said, point blank. People gave you the references. I know Catholics aren't strong on quoting scripture, but TRY. Find a verse that justifies government-sponsored prayers in a public setting.

In fact I would venture a guess that the resident were fore square in favor of the prayer which is why the Mayor of the town made a personal appearance and pledge that he would get to work to overturn this.

Those who weren't in favor would likely face a personal backlash from the believers, who feel that their beliefs are more important than anyone else's.

Spiritual guidance can be a great comfort to those in the end stages of their lives. More than one study has shown over and over, that people entering the latter years of life often turn to their faith as a comfort, and solace. This was a group of seniors within their own facility offering a prayer before lunch for heavens sake. Not some sandwich board wearing homeless man in the park screaming 'repent'!!!

Prove that a publicly offered prayer provides "spiritual guidance."

And even if it was, what makes you libs so scared of prayer that you feel you must take it away?

We never had group-lead prayers in my school. I still managed to pray all the time. You must not do a lot of praying if you believe that prayer is something that can EVER be taken from you.
 
Uhh... no, that's not what I said at all. I said people are forced to sit there and listen to their nonsense. No one can force anyone to pray, just like no one can STOP anyone from praying.


Ok, so who in the group was forced to sit there? Can you point to one? Or was this a case of some misinterpreted, over zealous liberal government reading of separations clause, that you now make up out of whole cloth something that didn't occur?


LMFAO You really think no one would stop me? You're ****ing insane if you do. You're also ****ing insane if you think they'd taken it to the Mayor if I had been told to stop my pre-dinner summon Lucifer rituals as a group.


Hey, I am all for the individual making themselves out to be a complete JackAss in public. It is good entertainment. Go for it.


j-mac
 
I thought liberals were happy that the federal government provides for those in need ??? :confused:

I'm being ironic today.

But if you're going to take things from the government, it comes with rules.

No one told them they couldn't say their own prayers. The center itself couldn't force them to pray together.

I see no problem with that. Indeed, if they were still saying a center-led prayer, then that would be the government forcing them to pray.

I thought conservatives didn't like government forcing people to do things.
 
Ok, for a 3rd time, lets see what the state told them over the years:



What does that sound like to you? An endorsement to pray?
Are you under the mistaken impression that the only way one can pray is in a group setting, verbally? ****ing seriously?


Well of course they wouldn't, b/c your sole purpose for doing so would be to create mischief, for the sole purpose of instigating or irritating others. In this case, a bunch of old people who aren't out to insult others, but simply say a prayer over their meal.
My reasons are my own, and no one elses business.

I find it more amazing you feel threatened by their prayer, when your not even in the same freaking state they are. Are you Muslim? Are you a devil worshipper? If not, then why would you bother with a prayer in Islam or in satanic verses? Pretty ridiculous if you think about it.
How would I be threatened? And threatened by what? And in what way? And what does that mean, anyway?

And why would I need to be actually personally affected by something in order to have a ****ing opinion on it ? Are you so short-sighted that you only care about things that directly affect you?
 
I'm being ironic today.

But if you're going to take things from the government, it comes with rules.

No one told them they couldn't say their own prayers. The center itself couldn't force them to pray together.

I see no problem with that. Indeed, if they were still saying a center-led prayer, then that would be the government forcing them to pray.

I thought conservatives didn't like government forcing people to do things.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything ??
 
What if you had to listen to it daily in order to eat? Why does their right to protestlytize outweigh your right to eat your meal in peace?

Do you know of one single person in the home that objected to the prayer ???

No, didn't think so.
 
Really? Can you please show us, where they were "made" to sit through a 5 second prayer?
If they actually wanted to eat their meal, they're all forced to sit through some nonsense.

And why is this "nonsense"?
Because it IS.

It's not "nonsense" to them. They find it pretty important obviously.
yes, yes I know. Some people need their little imaginary friends, I suppose. The fact that THEY don't consider it nonsense doesn't change the fact that it IS. My nephew doesn't think Santa is nonsense either.

Why do you feel threatened about their prayer that you weren't even a part of?
Please do explain *precisely* how one can possibly feel threatened by someone else talking to imaginary friends. I'm eagerly awaiting the logic behind this constant, repetitive mantra of yours.

Of course they would. Your doing it simply to stick a thumb in their eyes. You would be considered an instigator for the sole purpose of irritating others, which by and large, would get you kicked out of just about any venue.
I guess they could try and PROVE that. Would be hard though, considering it's impossible to read someone's mind.



Ok, so who in the group was forced to sit there? Can you point to one?
Every single person who wanted to eat their food.

Or was this a case of some misinterpreted, over zealous liberal government reading of separations clause, that you now make up out of whole cloth something that didn't occur?
A state run, or funded institution should not have staff leading people in prayer. Period. Same as in schools.

As long as the staff isn't leading people in prayer, I don't give a flying **** about it.
 
Last edited:
Who's forcing anyone to do anything ??

If it's a group prayer, then you're forced to listen to it if you're there.

So, if you've got a problem with the government delivering food, I've got a problem with the government or a federally supported center delivering Jesus.

It's not their job.

If you take government money, then you can't deliver Jesus. If you use only private donated funds, make people pray to Jesus all you like.

Look, I used to work for a Presbyterian college. I, myself, was not Presbyterian. I go to the Episcopal Church when I choose to. Because the school gave out federal assistance, they couldn't force professors or students to attend chapel. Down the road was a Baptists school that took no federal dollars. If you didn't attend chapel without good reason you were fired or suspended.

I'm fine with both. Once you take government assistance, the rules change. Accept it or don't accept federal assistance.
 
Do you know of one single person in the home that objected to the prayer ???

No, didn't think so.

It's necessary for someone to publicly object for a practice to be unconstitutional? Your reasoning is flawed, padawan.
 
It's necessary for someone to publicly object for a practice to be unconstitutional? Your reasoning is flawed, padawan.

Hardly flawed - if no one complains, it can never get to be found unconstitutional as it would never be put in front of a judge. You're "belief" and "opinion" nonwithstanding.
 
Do you know of one single person in the home that objected to the prayer ???

No, didn't think so.

now there is a civil standard to apply
if the elderly are intimidated enough not to object then the evangelists should be able to continue to feed their religious propaganda to this crowd
 
Hardly flawed - if no one complains, it can never get to be found unconstitutional as it would never be put in front of a judge. You're "belief" and "opinion" nonwithstanding.

You don't understand the use of case law, do you?
 
Every single person who wanted to eat their food.


Nonsense! You can't come up with anyone who objected other than the lib that raised a stink in the service company that delivers the food, so you ascribe this feigned outrage to every resident? sorry, that is weak.


A state run, or funded institution should not have staff leading people in prayer. Period. Same as in schools.


Ah BS! You just don't like organized religion so you feel that it should be destroyed period.


As long as the staff isn't leading people in prayer, I don't give a flying **** about it.


sure you do....I will pray for you right now, and my bet is that you will be offended....And I am not even anywhere near you.


j-mac
 
Ah, you're implying they are not Christians because they practice their religion differently than you do; how tolerant of you, Mr. Liberal.

I am saying they are not following these teachings:


6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.


You're also engaging in hyperbolic misrepresentation by characterizing their gentle criticisms as "clamoring for public prayer".

So they are clamoring for private prayer, now, are they?



I stand corrected.

Twice, now.
 
If it's a group prayer, then you're forced to listen to it if you're there.

So, if you've got a problem with the government delivering food, I've got a problem with the government or a federally supported center delivering Jesus.

It's not their job.

If you take government money, then you can't deliver Jesus. If you use only private donated funds, make people pray to Jesus all you like.

Look, I used to work for a Presbyterian college. I, myself, was not Presbyterian. I go to the Episcopal Church when I choose to. Because the school gave out federal assistance, they couldn't force professors or students to attend chapel. Down the road was a Baptists school that took no federal dollars. If you didn't attend chapel without good reason you were fired or suspended.

I'm fine with both. Once you take government assistance, the rules change. Accept it or don't accept federal assistance.

I never said I objected to the federal government subsidizing their food. Where did you get that idea from??

Do you believe that people on medicare in a hospital should be denied a priest ?? What about a dying veteran in a VA hospital?? Should preachers be banned from VA hospitals ???
 
Wow. That was some crippling comeback there. :roll:

As crippling as yours. :roll:

So tell me, from your vast legal experience, how does something become unconstitutional. What process has to be followed?
 
Clearly you don't.

Apparently, you're unaware that for something to be declared unconstitutional, it must be put in front of a judge. Because you "say so", doesn't make it so.
 
I am saying they are not following these teachings:

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Look at you, idealistically thinking that Christians actually pay attention to the Bible when it conflicts with their desire to impose their beliefs on other people and show how holy they are. I find it rather sweet, actually.
 
Back
Top Bottom