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Thread: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    *tink* *tink* *tink*.....hey LA! How about my question? Are you proscribing that those that want to have a group prayer in a public setting need a permit?


    j-mac
    No I am only saying that in a government subsidized home that organized prayer is against the establishment of religion clause of the constitution.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    No I am only saying that in a government subsidized home that organized prayer is against the establishment of religion clause of the constitution.

    I think you may have the story wrong here. The government is subsidizing the meal that is delivered through a private contractor to the home, that gets it's subsidy from the federal government. Not the home itself.

    Secondly, the employees that noticed the resident praying before the meal seem to be the ones offended here, not the government as they reversed the decision made by the over zealous food provider.

    Lastly, if saying grace before a meal is some sort of melding of state and religion just because the meal is paid for by the federal government, then I think you would have to show me where the government agent was making them pray, or leading the prayer. Other than that all we have here is some liberal jerk that doesn't like this sort of thing, and picked an easy target to pick on. They should be ashamed.


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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    No I am only saying that in a government subsidized home that organized prayer is against the establishment of religion clause of the constitution.

    then the case law you tried to use is irrelevant.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think you may have the story wrong here. The government is subsidizing the meal that is delivered through a private contractor to the home, that gets it's subsidy from the federal government. Not the home itself.

    Secondly, the employees that noticed the resident praying before the meal seem to be the ones offended here, not the government as they reversed the decision made by the over zealous food provider.

    Lastly, if saying grace before a meal is some sort of melding of state and religion just because the meal is paid for by the federal government, then I think you would have to show me where the government agent was making them pray, or leading the prayer. Other than that all we have here is some liberal jerk that doesn't like this sort of thing, and picked an easy target to pick on. They should be ashamed.


    j-amc
    Did you just call me a liberal jerk?

    BTW, why do you think it was a liberal?
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 05-16-10 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Did you just call me a liberal jerk?

    No no...I was speaking of the employee of Senior Citizens Inc. that provides the meals, that blew the whistle on this.

    BTW, why do you think it was a liberal?
    Take a good reading of the positions taken in here on this question, and you tell me how to those opposed to letting these people have their prayer before lunch line up in the political spectrum?



    j-mac
    Last edited by j-mac; 05-16-10 at 03:47 PM.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No no...I was speaking of the employee of Senior Citizens Inc. that provides the meals, that blew the whistle on this.


    j-mac
    I know, just kidding, big trucker.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Lastly, if saying grace before a meal is some sort of melding of state and religion just because the meal is paid for by the federal government, then I think you would have to show me where the government agent was making them pray, or leading the prayer. Other than that all we have here is some liberal jerk that doesn't like this sort of thing, and picked an easy target to pick on. They should be ashamed.

    j-amc
    I think they should be more than ashamed. Turn a statist tactic around on them and find every single legal violation they committed and throw the book at 'em for all of them.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    God bless you all.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We all lose when things like what you are saying here are taken for intelligent discourse. Sorry, but that is just how I feel about it. Oh, and one other thing here, you and others seem to have assumed and labeled me, or others as some kind of hyper religious types. Clearly, you must feel some guilt in what you say, fore there would be little reason for you to cast such an imagined dispersion toward people that disagree with you whether you know them to actually be religious or not. It is IMHO, a small, and closed minded approach to this question, and one that should be as equally dismissed as the argument you and others are attempting to make.

    No one that I know of by reading the article is forcing anything on anyone, other than the weasel from the food service company that felt their subsidy threatened through an over zealous reading of the regulations.

    As for your hypothetical, you can most certainly carry on a conversation during a prayer in public, however, what you can not expect is that if you chose to do so without considering others around you and what they wish to participate in or not, is a POV from a deeply narcissistic stand, and one that is void of others wishes. So why should they respect yours?


    j-mac

    No, 'we' don't lose when you take what i'm saying as a poor substitute for intelligent discourse - you do. Your opinion is that me and the others who do not wish to participate in your religious public ceremony should be silent and observe, which is in effect you telling me that I should participate. That's the same argument you types always put up claiming to be in defense of your religion, and until you understand that this is exactly why you keep seeing more and more removal of religious ideology from public institutions and locations, I expect these kind of threads will continue.

    Furthermore, you speak of my viewpoint as being narcissistic simply because I don't wish to be forced into silence in a public place over a religious ideology that I don't believe in. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm not saying abolish your ceremonies in public. I'm saying STOP forcing me to be quiet and participate, observe, or whatever. If you can't accept the fact that there are many other people on this planet who do not want to participate in your religion, again, be prepared to see your public religious ceremonies removed. In other words, stop telling me to be quiet when you're having your public prayer. My conversation was already taking place, anyway, so the reality of the situation is that they interrupted me.

    Oh, and regarding your belief that I feel guilty by failing to participate in or observe your particular religious ceremonies, nice try. Since we are apparently into hurling rampant generalizations about one another, perhaps it is you that feels guilty for devoting such attention to some nonexistent superbeing? If so, perhaps you would be less crestfallen if you were to devote your attention to a much cooler entity, such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Pastafarianism is all the rage these days.

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    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No, 'we' don't lose when you take what i'm saying as a poor substitute for intelligent discourse - you do. Your opinion is that me and the others who do not wish to participate in your religious public ceremony should be silent and observe, which is in effect you telling me that I should participate. That's the same argument you types always put up claiming to be in defense of your religion, and until you understand that this is exactly why you keep seeing more and more removal of religious ideology from public institutions and locations, I expect these kind of threads will continue.

    Furthermore, you speak of my viewpoint as being narcissistic simply because I don't wish to be forced into silence in a public place over a religious ideology that I don't believe in. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm not saying abolish your ceremonies in public. I'm saying STOP forcing me to be quiet and participate, observe, or whatever. If you can't accept the fact that there are many other people on this planet who do not want to participate in your religion, again, be prepared to see your public religious ceremonies removed. In other words, stop telling me to be quiet when you're having your public prayer. My conversation was already taking place, anyway, so the reality of the situation is that they interrupted me.

    Oh, and regarding your belief that I feel guilty by failing to participate in or observe your particular religious ceremonies, nice try. Since we are apparently into hurling rampant generalizations about one another, perhaps it is you that feels guilty for devoting such attention to some nonexistent superbeing? If so, perhaps you would be less crestfallen if you were to devote your attention to a much cooler entity, such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Pastafarianism is all the rage these days.

    Is there some all encompassing discussion that you have that hinges on saving the world from something wishing to destroy it? Some all important discussion that you feel the need to disrespect others, while at the same time demanding that they respect you? You know just because you don't believe what others do doesn't mean that you, or they are right, it is just a simple respect given another in this world.

    I feel sorry for you having to live in a place where you are the extreme minority based on your belief of nothing, fore you therefore are subject to believe anything. Oh wait, you aren't forced are you? You could just leave.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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